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No need to call them... we have tuned an ECU. We know what's different.

Rumor has it Stillen is planning on an ECU someday, of course they are not going to push another product. Sadly they aren't that skilled in tuning with the TECTOM program, so no worries out of them yet.

No offense, I've never know Stillen to bring anything big up to the plate.


I'll see you on the track...
AIM - PhoenixINX
Go Fast, Have Fun! - www.CrawfordZPerformance.com
 

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PhoenixINX:

Good afternoon.

As much as I look forward to your comments and your valuable experience, any discussion appears to end with CrawfordZPerformance as the answer. For some reason, I always feel as though there is some overwhelming sales or marketing agenda going on here. I do not think the discussion is based on Crawford’s menu of service, credibility or Stillen’s incompetence in the industry. I am simply stating the position of Stillen or the position of those that sell Stillen products regarding the statements of Technosquareinc. This discussion has nothing to do with CrawfordZPerformance or rumor mill discussion of Stillen’s ECU. For the sake of this argument, Performancenissanparts also said the same. As I am sure they are incompetent as well, I am simply offering the comments of those that have solid reputations in the industry. The only people that feel the ECU upgrade is an absolute necessity are those that are selling it. This is the message that I have received from both companies.

Back to the issue. I have a concern that this ECU upgrade phenomenon is starting to be forced on us. Specifically, the scare tactic that we must buy this service in order to utilize our modifications. For this being the case, Stillen and nissanperformanceparts have dissenting opinions on said claims.

However, if this turns out to be incorrect, I will be on the waiting list to order the ECU upgrade. Nevertheless, I believe the key is to disseminate between fact and fiction, which is a gambit that Technosquareinc is playing wonderfully.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PhoenixINX

No need to call them... we have tuned an ECU. We know what's different.

Rumor has it Stillen is planning on an ECU someday, of course they are not going to push another product. Sadly they aren't that skilled in tuning with the TECTOM program, so no worries out of them yet.

No offense, I've never know Stillen to bring anything big up to the plate.


I'll see you on the track...
AIM - PhoenixINX
Go Fast, Have Fun! - www.CrawfordZPerformance.com
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
 

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You don't have to flash your ECU at ALL to satisfy the mods, you will just still have the stock redline, speed limited, lesser responsive throttle...

The fact be told, with these mods your car will start to lean out. The tune is to bring you back in line so you don't burn a valve, etc... This goes for ANY combination of mods. I've heard of people running all Borla components and running high 13 low 14 AF ratio. That is DANGEROUSLY lean if you did ANY kind of HPDEs, etc.

How about instead of getting so defensive, you listen to the facts that a vendor has graciously spent their R&D cash on to help you.

There is NO gambit... TS, through Tectom has been tuning ECUs for YEARS. Supras, EVOs, etc... They are NOT a new name.


I'll see you on the track...
AIM - PhoenixINX
Go Fast, Have Fun! - www.CrawfordZPerformance.com
 

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PhoenixINX:

Thank you for response.

Do not be mad. I personally enjoy your enthusiasm about Mr. Crawford and his products. However, I thought this thread was a discussion regarding the Technosquareinc ECU and the response below:
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">… so some performance components upgrades (intake, exhaust) would actually result in a loss of HP below stock!"<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
I did not expect it would turn into an indictment on Stillen and a plug for Crawford. I am not refuting your belief in Crawford’s ECU nor am I challenging your technical aptitude. I simply reiterated what I was told at Stillen and Nissanperformanceparts. If you believe they are both wrong and inept that is fine. It does not make any difference to me. I simply thought that some of you might find this information interesting.

Thank you.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by PhoenixINX

You don't have to flash your ECU at ALL to satisfy the mods, you will just still have the stock redline, speed limited, lesser responsive throttle...

The fact be told, with these mods your car will start to lean out. The tune is to bring you back in line so you don't burn a valve, etc... This goes for ANY combination of mods. I've heard of people running all Borla components and running high 13 low 14 AF ratio. That is DANGEROUSLY lean if you did ANY kind of HPDEs, etc.

How about instead of getting so defensive, you listen to the facts that a vendor has graciously spent their R&D cash on to help you.

There is NO gambit... TS, through Tectom has been tuning ECUs for YEARS. Supras, EVOs, etc... They are NOT a new name.


I'll see you on the track...
AIM - PhoenixINX
Go Fast, Have Fun! - www.CrawfordZPerformance.com
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
 

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I must say that the Technosquare ECU does do something for a car. If you take a look at barry/gokart and chenga/andy (my own car), there is a difference of 14 horsepower. These are different cars, yes, and they could make different horsepower stock. Nevertheless, he has the same aftermarket stuff on his car that I have and we both have 6MT sedans. The only other mods I have are: 6 wire grounding kit (Shouldn't be more HP), opened up stock airbox (Shouldn't be too much more HP if any at all), and Technosquare ECU

This info certainly doesn't prove that the Technosquare ECU makes extra power, but it can't hurt its case right? Barry was the run before me. His car went no more than 15 minutes before they loaded mine on, so conditions were nearly identical.

My 248.11hp run was done as the last run of the day several hours later. The conditions info is SAE corrected, but the weather/humidity didn't change much (It is California after all). The last run by itself was preceded by a 246hp run after which the computer crashed. These last two runs were done with some 100 octane gas tossed in and mixed (I drove around like a madman for 15 mins), which made the tank ~94 octane.

Take what you will from the data that we collected. I think a lot of people who attended the dyno day were considering giving Technosquare a call. I had purchased the ECU not for power, but for all the other benefits. Lastly, my A/F curve is a flat line at 13.08 (Tailpipe, so it'll be richer than that up front) from 3400rpm on out to 7100. All the other G35s had erratic A/F curves.

http://g35driver.com/forums/attatchments/323846-323815-GGG_DynoDay_081404.gif
 

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dieu

I simply reiterated what I was told at Stillen and Nissanperformanceparts. If you believe they are both wrong and inept that is fine. It does not make any difference to me. I simply thought that some of you might find this information interesting.
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Here's your free information...

"Welcome to the world of tuning... if a shop doesn't sell it, they will never recommend it. Or even worse... down talk it."

I've got better things to do than bs product, etc...

I recommend what works for the best value.


I'll see you on the track...
AIM - PhoenixINX
Go Fast, Have Fun! - www.CrawfordZPerformance.com
 

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Chenga:

That is interesting information! Here is what I think I see:

Quite a difference between Infiniti’s rated 270 lb-ft torque at stock and Vinh/DrSifu1’s 04 Coupe 6MT @ 228 lb-ft torque with all the nice modifications in place. What do you attribute to this? I would like to see the results of Vinh/DrSifu1’s 6MT Coupe with “95” octane fuel. Either way, it must feel good to be pushing almost 250rwhp and about 238-lb-ft torque.

Another interesting perspective is comparing the gains of Vinh/DrSifu1’s 6MT Coupe with all the listed equipment upgrades at 240rwhp to David/accord freak’s stock 6MT Coupe at 230rwhp. Just a quick inventory, David/accord freak must have dumped around $1,600.00 for that additional 10rwhp.

From a cost performance perspective, it may make more sense to save that $1,600 and put it toward a supercharger. Sure as hell is going to add a hell of a lot more than 10 or 20 horsepower. Just some rough math tells me they spent around $160 per hp. whereas; the additional 60hp added by the SC will cost us a little over $83 per hp.

Thanks again for that data.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chenga

I must say that the Technosquare ECU does do something for a car. If you take a look at barry/gokart and chenga/andy (my own car), there is a difference of 14 horsepower. These are different cars, yes, and they could make different horsepower stock. Nevertheless, he has the same aftermarket stuff on his car that I have and we both have 6MT sedans. The only other mods I have are: 6 wire grounding kit (Shouldn't be more HP), opened up stock airbox (Shouldn't be too much more HP if any at all), and Technosquare ECU

This info certainly doesn't prove that the Technosquare ECU makes extra power, but it can't hurt its case right? Barry was the run before me. His car went no more than 15 minutes before they loaded mine on, so conditions were nearly identical.

My 248.11hp run was done as the last run of the day several hours later. The conditions info is SAE corrected, but the weather/humidity didn't change much (It is California after all). The last run by itself was preceded by a 246hp run after which the computer crashed. These last two runs were done with some 100 octane gas tossed in and mixed (I drove around like a madman for 15 mins), which made the tank ~94 octane.

Take what you will from the data that we collected. I think a lot of people who attended the dyno day were considering giving Technosquare a call. I had purchased the ECU not for power, but for all the other benefits. Lastly, my A/F curve is a flat line at 13.08 (Tailpipe, so it'll be richer than that up front) from 3400rpm on out to 7100. All the other G35s had erratic A/F curves.

http://g35driver.com/forums/attatchments/323846-323815-GGG_DynoDay_081404.gif
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
 

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No problem with the data. You're correct that bolt-ons aren't a very cost-effective way to add horsepower. The reason I went with bolt-ons is that I don't intend to use forced induction. The only other add-on I'm considering is the plenum.

I won't come near super/turbocharged hp/torque numbers, but I'll have some increase over stock and I won't have spent as much money as the FI guys. If you have the money though, FI is definitely more cost-effective. =)

I think the other thing with the numbers is that the 6MT sedan is underrated (260bhp) from the factory. You can see that Vinh's coupe only gained 10hp compared to a stock coupe, but my car at 248rwhp is much much higher than the stock (w/z-tube) 5AT sedan around 213rwhp. I doubt the things I did could really change the power that much. This could be a reason why the sedans "seem" to respond better to mods.

Assuming 18% drivetrain loss, Vinh's 228 ft-lbs of torque becomes 278 ft-lbs of torque. If he did spend $1600, you're right - that's not much torque for that amount of money.

Dieu, where are you in Michigan? I went to school in Ann Arbor and my G35 was purchased at Suburban Infiniti in Novi. I drove her all the way out here to California [email protected] with A/C on.
 

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If I'm not mistaken, the only CARB legal supercharger is the Stillen up to stage 2. You'll need the Stillen hood to go with that SC or a modified stock hood.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Orlando333

PhoenixInx -- Given you only recommend what works, what is the best supercharger for a G35 AT. That is street legal in California?
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If the Stillen blower and the ATI blower run the same peak boost pressure with the same degree of charge air cooling, then the ATI has to be safer for the engine than the Stillen. The ATI will reach peak boost pressure at a higher engine rpm, which is less likely to produce detonation (all else being equal).
 

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Chenga:

I am in Plymouth Michigan. I am about ten minutes from Novi. I also picked up my Coupe at Suburban Infiniti. They brought it in from Indiana. My sales person (friend) is Mark C. My wife is from Orange County California. About fifteen minutes from Laguna Beach!

BTW, I have the Kinetix plenum, Z-Tube/Pop Charger, and Stillen Cat-Backs (dual wall) exhaust. After looking at your data, I am afraid to take it to the dyno. I am afraid that I will not like the results. I am also going to pickup Kinetix’s Catalytic Converters. After that, I am done! Any further, and I am going to BMW and driving away with the M3.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chenga

No problem with the data. You're correct that bolt-ons aren't a very cost-effective way to add horsepower. The reason I went with bolt-ons is that I don't intend to use forced induction. The only other add-on I'm considering is the plenum.

I won't come near super/turbocharged hp/torque numbers, but I'll have some increase over stock and I won't have spent as much money as the FI guys. If you have the money though, FI is definitely more cost-effective. =)

I think the other thing with the numbers is that the 6MT sedan is underrated (260bhp) from the factory. You can see that Vinh's coupe only gained 10hp compared to a stock coupe, but my car at 248rwhp is much much higher than the stock (w/z-tube) 5AT sedan around 213rwhp. I doubt the things I did could really change the power that much. This could be a reason why the sedans "seem" to respond better to mods.

Assuming 18% drivetrain loss, Vinh's 228 ft-lbs of torque becomes 278 ft-lbs of torque. If he did spend $1600, you're right - that's not much torque for that amount of money.

Dieu, where are you in Michigan? I went to school in Ann Arbor and my G35 was purchased at Suburban Infiniti in Novi. I drove her all the way out here to California [email protected] with A/C on.
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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">do you have a supercharger<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I guess that question was for me.

Currently, no. I've built two daily driven force fed cars before, a B&M supercharged Camaro (12.22 @ 124 mph 1/4 mile on street rubber), and a Garrett T3/T4 turbocharged Eagle Talon (12.00 @ 118 mph 1/4 mile, also on street rubber).
 

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Good to hear. I have to say I was pretty impressed with the friendliness of Suburban. They treated me a lot better there than Lexus of Ann Arbor and I had my mother's old '95 LS400 when I was looking at the IS300 and G35. Maybe I expected too much out of Lexus? They do get high ratings every time though.

Back to the topic at hand... Have you considered getting the TS ECU? Supposedly it helps the plenum make more power because the plenum is after the MAF sensor. Whether or not this is marketing or truth I do not know though.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dieu

Chenga:

I am in Plymouth Michigan. I am about ten minutes from Novi. I also picked up my Coupe at Suburban Infiniti. They brought it in from Indiana. My sales person (friend) is Mark C. My wife is from Orange County California. About fifteen minutes from Laguna Beach!

BTW, I have the Kinetix plenum, Z-Tube/Pop Charger, and Stillen Cat-Backs (dual wall) exhaust. After looking at your data, I am afraid to take it to the dyno. I am afraid that I will not like the results. I am also going to pickup Kinetix’s Catalytic Converters. After that, I am done! Any further, and I am going to BMW and driving away with the M3.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chenga

No problem with the data. You're correct that bolt-ons aren't a very cost-effective way to add horsepower. The reason I went with bolt-ons is that I don't intend to use forced induction. The only other add-on I'm considering is the plenum.

I won't come near super/turbocharged hp/torque numbers, but I'll have some increase over stock and I won't have spent as much money as the FI guys. If you have the money though, FI is definitely more cost-effective. =)

I think the other thing with the numbers is that the 6MT sedan is underrated (260bhp) from the factory. You can see that Vinh's coupe only gained 10hp compared to a stock coupe, but my car at 248rwhp is much much higher than the stock (w/z-tube) 5AT sedan around 213rwhp. I doubt the things I did could really change the power that much. This could be a reason why the sedans "seem" to respond better to mods.

Assuming 18% drivetrain loss, Vinh's 228 ft-lbs of torque becomes 278 ft-lbs of torque. If he did spend $1600, you're right - that's not much torque for that amount of money.

Dieu, where are you in Michigan? I went to school in Ann Arbor and my G35 was purchased at Suburban Infiniti in Novi. I drove her all the way out here to California [email protected] with A/C on.
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Small world.

I traded in my IS300 for the G35 last year. The Ann Arbor Lexus has a reputation of poor service. On the other hand, Lexus in Southfield bends over backwards. If I had requested a prostitute to close the deal, sure as heck Meade Lexus would have made the call. Sadly, Lexus’ product selection is dated and needs a slight refresh. Perhaps the forthcoming IS400 will be the enema Toyota’s finest needs.

Yes, I am considering the TS ECU. Here is my dilemma: Would it be logical to expect the OE ECU to be capable of monitoring airflow and make all necessary adjustments to optimize the vehicles performance/efficiency? That is, I am hearing we need TS’ ECU because our OE ECU’s are figuratively speaking “hardwired” in that they do not recognize or make adjustments to compensate for changes in the engine’s environment such as increased airflow.

For an example and illustration purposes, if a user installs the NISMO CAI, will the OE ECU adjust to allow for the increased airflow or will it continue to respond as though the OE stock air intake is installed? If this is the case, the OE ECU is incapable of detecting environmental engine changes.

Thanks!


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chenga

Good to hear. I have to say I was pretty impressed with the friendliness of Suburban. They treated me a lot better there than Lexus of Ann Arbor and I had my mother's old '95 LS400 when I was looking at the IS300 and G35. Maybe I expected too much out of Lexus? They do get high ratings every time though.

Back to the topic at hand... Have you considered getting the TS ECU? Supposedly it helps the plenum make more power because the plenum is after the MAF sensor. Whether or not this is marketing or truth I do not know though.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by dieu

Chenga:

I am in Plymouth Michigan. I am about ten minutes from Novi. I also picked up my Coupe at Suburban Infiniti. They brought it in from Indiana. My sales person (friend) is Mark C. My wife is from Orange County California. About fifteen minutes from Laguna Beach!

BTW, I have the Kinetix plenum, Z-Tube/Pop Charger, and Stillen Cat-Backs (dual wall) exhaust. After looking at your data, I am afraid to take it to the dyno. I am afraid that I will not like the results. I am also going to pickup Kinetix’s Catalytic Converters. After that, I am done! Any further, and I am going to BMW and driving away with the M3.


<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by chenga

No problem with the data. You're correct that bolt-ons aren't a very cost-effective way to add horsepower. The reason I went with bolt-ons is that I don't intend to use forced induction. The only other add-on I'm considering is the plenum.

I won't come near super/turbocharged hp/torque numbers, but I'll have some increase over stock and I won't have spent as much money as the FI guys. If you have the money though, FI is definitely more cost-effective. =)

I think the other thing with the numbers is that the 6MT sedan is underrated (260bhp) from the factory. You can see that Vinh's coupe only gained 10hp compared to a stock coupe, but my car at 248rwhp is much much higher than the stock (w/z-tube) 5AT sedan around 213rwhp. I doubt the things I did could really change the power that much. This could be a reason why the sedans "seem" to respond better to mods.

Assuming 18% drivetrain loss, Vinh's 228 ft-lbs of torque becomes 278 ft-lbs of torque. If he did spend $1600, you're right - that's not much torque for that amount of money.

Dieu, where are you in Michigan? I went to school in Ann Arbor and my G35 was purchased at Suburban Infiniti in Novi. I drove her all the way out here to California [email protected] with A/C on.
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I did get out to Meade Lexus of Southfield in my search for an IS300. Unfortunately the IS300 w/manual and navigation is nearly impossible to find. I went with the better performing G35 instead. I don't regret it a bit, but the Lexus fit and finish is definitely a step above.

Technosquare's claim is that the ECU will try to adapt, but it won't be able to take advantage of the changes that you will make to your car.

The plenum is a big selling point for them. They claim that the ECU has no way to tell that the engine is seeing so much more air, so the car can't make use of the add-on.

If you're just adding the CAI I think you should be fine. Intake occurs before the MAF sensor so the stock ECU will be able to pick up changes to airflow. With exhaust, plenum, cats Technosquare recommends a reflash. Not for headers though. Maybe I have it mixed up. For headers or cats Technosquare says it will make a difference. It's one of those, not both, but I can't remember which one he said I could just do without getting a reflash.
 
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