Mods!

g35brando · Mar 27, 2003

Just finished putting an HKS circle earth grounding kit and injen intake on my baby, it feels a lot faster! i got that stuff and a blitz nur spec exhaust from www.pressureracing.com! i'll take pics as soon as i get the exhaust on! I'm also going to order a set of tein dampers as soon as i got the cash (G35 and mods sucked me dry)![

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Semi On · Mar 27, 2003

As an electrical engineer, I put "earthing kits" in the same league as $2000 speaker wire.

If every automanufacturer in the world is consistently designing their electrical system with an unstable ground, they all need to be shot as doing so correctly is about as basic a problem as one could imagine for an EE.

gumbee · Mar 27, 2003

As an avid audiophile, I will contest that there are serious differences in wires. RF interference alone can have a dramatic effect on high end audio systems, not to mention lengh of runs, or a number of other variables.

I can see the opportunity for a lot of interference being encountered within the electrical system of a car. The most obvious example would be the use of in-line filters for amps to prevent the "whine" many people experience when upgrading their systems.

Although I think the earthing kit probably has more of a placebo effect than anything else, here is some documented info on performance:
Earthing Kit

Click on "Expand All" to see the Dynos.

Even NISMO has an available Earthing Kit for the G (not that, that necessarily means anything

.

peace

Semi On · Mar 27, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As an avid audiophile, I will contest that there are serious differences in wires. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And I will contest that you are wrong and have been suckered by a long running myth.

Ever seen an actual measurement of the difference between the results? Ever seen the results of a double blind test? Both vindicate the position that those spreading this rumor due so out of ignorance.

You may find this helpful:
http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">RF interference alone can have a dramatic effect <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

As an electrical engineer with a focus on communications systems and currently working in the world of 12GHz semiconductors, I'm quite comfortable in saying BULLSHIT.

Isolating speaker wire from the small amount of RF in a home is a trivial task. If you doubt me, grab an oscilloscope and measure the noise on your unconnected speaker wire. I guarantee you, it will be trivial.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">not to mention lengh of runs<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I suggest you brush up on Ohms law, learn a bit about resistances and then measure the difference between an 8m and a 12m cable before you attempt to make this argument. The load of your equipment so dramatically offsets the tiny variation from cable lengths as to make it a ridiculous proposition.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">or a number of other variables.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which are recognized by any scientific research.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I can see the opportunity for a lot of interference being encountered within the electrical system of a car. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

None of which would be effected by a more thorough grounding job.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">The most obvious example would be the use of in-line filters for amps to prevent the "whine" many people experience when upgrading their systems.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Whine? Are you talking about car audio? What does this have to do with the car's electrical control systems?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Although I think the earthing kit probably has more of a placebo effect than anything else, here is some documented info on performance:
Earthing Kit<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I tend to look for data from people not trying to sell me something when making a scientific decision.

I'm not saying it isn't possible, but I've never seen anything I'd deem scientific to support it and I'm heavily skeptical. If someone can produce an independent, non-biased, scientific report, I'll gladly accept the concept. Whether or not I buy one would depend on the improvement v. cost, of course.

Regards,
Semi

Speedy_K · Mar 27, 2003

As another avid audiophile, I agreed with"gumbee" that speaker wire does affect the sound quality. If you don't belive it, then stop by a high end audio shop and ask for a demonstration. Sorry for the off topic discussion.

Semi On · Mar 27, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Speedy_K

As another avid audiophile, I agreed with"gumbee" that speaker wire does affect the sound quality. If you don't belive it, then stop by a high end audio shop and ask for a demonstration. Sorry for the off topic discussion.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've done so.

Have you ever participated in a double blind comparison? There are profound psychological reasons behind the claim that some still carry regarding expensive cables.

Every single study ever done through a double blind comparison of which I am aware has come to the same conclusion. All the "experts", while some were able to identify differences in the cables, totally failed to come to any conclusion on what sounded better. They weren't even consistent with their own preferences.

If you wish to claim otherwise, provide scientific evidence of it. Don't make wild claims with no substantiation. Provide proof.

Semi On · Mar 27, 2003

Here's some reading material from people NOT selling you something:

This is a post from Alan Loft whom any "avid audiophile" should recognize on the subject:
http://www.axiomaudio.com/boards/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=Advice&Number=1437&page=&view=&sb=&o=

There have been more from him in which he details the findings of Canada's Research Center in which experts from around the world have all failed double blind tests. Sadly, Axiom's search engine is lacking...

Here's the thoughts on speaker wire from the engineers at National that design many of the components in your hardware:
http://www.national.com/rap/Story/0,1562,3,00.html

Here are the thoughts of John Dunlavy, whom I'm sure you "avid audiophiles" will recognize as well:
http://www.verber.com/mark/cables.html

gumbee · Mar 27, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">those spreading this rumor due so out of ignorance<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

To imply that someone you do not know is "ignorant", is in itself born from ignorance. Personal attacks at individuals who are speaking their *opinion*, through their own experience is rude, and uncalled for. We all share some common interests here, and we should treat each other with respect.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">As an electrical engineer....<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am glad to hear about your profession. However, I will choose not to take your word as the "final word", and I will continue to make my own decisions based on my own education, experience, and *additional* sources of information. I do not mean any disrespect for your level of expertise. I simply ask that you understand that all postings to open forums should be taken with a grain of salt, and individuals should continue to do their own homework.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I suggest you brush up on Ohms law, learn a bit about resistances and then measure the difference between an 8m and a 12m<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I am quite familiar with Ohms Law. I don't recall anything in my post mentions a limit of 12m as a run length. You assume too much.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">None of which would be effected by a more thorough grounding job.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I agree with you. As I said in my post, I refer to the "improvement" as being that of a placebo effect.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Whine? Are you talking about car audio? What does this have to do with the car's electrical control systems?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

The comment was to show the introduction of noise into the electrical system.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I tend to look for data from people not trying to sell me something when making a scientific decision.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Conspiracy theories abound.

I agree that a companies propoganda must be closely examined. However, this cannot always be done. For example, even you may have been swayed by Infiniti's proganda towards buying your G. Maybe even before you had a chance to drive it thoroughly

I myself have ordered an earthing kit. I do not believe that it will make a noticeable improvement. Although, for the $75 I paid, I am willing to test it on the Dyno myslef, just to see.

peace

g35brando · Mar 27, 2003

you guys hijacked my post and went off on some gay ass tangent that no one cares about. shut the fuck up.. [finger]

Semi On · Mar 28, 2003

Well, it's not like there was a lot of discussion worthy content to it. You don't even have pictures yet!

In order to generate some discussion: have you noticed any difference with the grounding kit? Does it feel any different to you? How much did you spend on all of this?

gumbee · Mar 28, 2003

Brando,

Did you take the car for a test after installing each mod independently? Hopefully this way you could measure the improvememnt of the earthing kit vs. the more noticeable improvment of the CAI.

I currently have both on order. $75 for the earthing kit from some guy posting on 350zdriver and Gdriver, and $279 for the Injen CAI from Intense Motorsports.

peace

g35brando · Mar 28, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On

Well, it's not like there was a lot of discussion worthy content to it. You don't even have pictures yet!

In order to generate some discussion: have you noticed any difference with the grounding kit? Does it feel any different to you? How much did you spend on all of this?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
yes it feels faster. i took it to the nissan dealer and had them drive it and they told me it felt faster and asked what i did. the prices are all on www.pressureracing.com

g35brando · Mar 28, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by gumbee

Brando,

Did you take the car for a test after installing each mod independently? Hopefully this way you could measure the improvememnt of the earthing kit vs. the more noticeable improvment of the CAI.

I currently have both on order. $75 for the earthing kit from some guy posting on 350zdriver and Gdriver, and $279 for the Injen CAI from Intense Motorsports.

peace
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
yes i did install each seperately. first the grounding kit and drove it an hour. and then the CAI and did the same. ;]

Jedi · Apr 2, 2003

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by g35brando

Just finished putting an HKS circle earth grounding kit and injen intake on my baby, it feels a lot faster! i got that stuff and a blitz nur spec exhaust from www.pressureracing.com! i'll take pics as soon as i get the exhaust on! I'm also going to order a set of tein dampers as soon as i got the cash (G35 and mods sucked me dry)![

]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Ok then. Pictures, damn it, pictures. Come on man! You can't tease us this and expect no to get turned on!!!! [

]

"Use the Forced Air Induction Luke"
-Jedi

gumbee · Apr 11, 2003

I finally installed the Grounding Kit. I have been driving the car for about 3 days with the new wires, and have not yet installed the Injen CAI.

The first thing I have noticed is that the car fires up quicker. It hits about 1800 before settling back down to 1k. Before the kit, my car would idle around 500 when warm, now it idles at 1k. Idle is also noticeably smoother.

The other thing I have noticed is that the car feals more eager. I have the 5AT, and the battery has not been disconnected since I bought the G. During the break-in period, I drove very casually while periodically putting loads on the engine. I understand that the AT has a learning function, that adapts to your driving habits. I do not know if this information is stored in non-volatile memory or not. So, the "eagerness" that I feel could possibly be a result of simply disconnecting the battery and the AT memory being reset (one note, neither the settings nor the *clock* on the Nav unit was lost).

So the grounding kit may have made a trivial difference. Although I originally wanted to dyno the car after the installation, I have decided against it. The Dyno will cost nearly as much as the wires, and even *IF* there is an HP increase, I don't think it will be worth throwing the extra money at it.

For me, the bottom line for the Earthing Kit: Even if the the difference I feel is actually mental, for the $75 it cost me, it is at least a good *looking* mod under the hood.

peace

eekern · Jul 22, 2003

sorry about the off topic subject, but if you have a question about wether or not speaker wire and interconnect wire makes a difference, go to hometheaterhifi.com and read about the blind, long term, listening tests done buy this group of ENGINEERS and SCIENTISTS with too much time on there hands and a love for audio reproduction.

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