[trojanpony]

I just got a G35 Coupe. I really, really didn't want a sun/moon roof so I knew I'd be settling for a base model. I didn't think the stereo would be a big deal. I'm not one for modifying stock components and the stereo systems in my past...geez, 5 cars have been quite adequate. This one sort of sucks. It seems it's got too much treble one minute, too much base the next, too much fade front or too much fade to the rear. It really sounds like a transister radio with the volume low and not much better (maybe worse) when I turn it up...maybe even to the point of distortion. I think I've read every post on the subject. I'm not an radio head so all the technical jargon goes right over my head. Is there a simple fix here? What I -think - I've determined from what you all have written is the following. The base stereo as well as the premium sound systems are both Alpine/Bose. The only difference is 125 watt vs. 225 watt external amp and a couple of extra speakers (in the rear deck?). If this is correct, what's going to happen if I upgrade the amp and add a couple of rear speakers? Comments, suggestions (I already know I'm ignorant so you don't need to tell me that)? Thanks, appreciate the input/feedback. Maybe some personal info would be helpful. I'm 42 and don't listen to rap, hip hop or extreme alternative music at maximum volume or base, although I do have pretty eclectic tastes...I'll listen to anything from George Straight to T-Rex, Fat Boy Slim to Elton John. I don't need an audiophile type system but I CAN distinguish good sound from mediocre and while I can live with what's in it now (if I have to), I'd say this system borders on less than mediocre. Thanks again![?]

 

[rlipps]

In order to better help you... How much are you looking to spend? I assume that you want to keep the stock head unit. Do you just want to amp your current speakers (won't help sound quality), or do you want to change the speakers altogether? Possibly you would like to change the speakers and add a new amp for the new speakers?

 

[trojanpony]

What I'd like to do - ideally - is add a couple of speakers and replace the amp. If just replacing the amp won't improve the sound then there's not much point of doing that. I do not want to replace the existing speakers...at least not all of them. I would like to add speakers to the rear deck, but I would consider replacing the speakers in the rear armrest panels in lieu of that. I'd spend 300-400$ max. Thanks.

 

[rlipps]

With a pocketbook of only $300-400 your options are very slim. Actually your only option would be to amp the current speakers. My first statement was misleading, the amp can help sound quality by keeping the Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) of the signal to the speakers very low. However, your sound quality (SQ) will ultimately be limited by the quality of your speakers. I am assuming that currently you have the tweeters in the top of the doors, the 6.5"s in the lower part of the door, and 2 more 6.5"s right behind your seats, and that is all correct? If this is the case I would recommend a 4 channel amp. If you go look for amps and tell me what models you are looking at I can give you pointers. Just remember that you get what you pay for with car audio. Also, you will have to take into mind other costs, ~$45 for amp wiring kit, ~$45 for Install, ~$10 for a speaker level out to RCA out converter (only need this if the amp you buy doesn't support speaker level input). That will leave you with approx. $200-$300 for the amp.

 

[johnnzen]

I'm in the same boat as trojan pony here but how bout if you had $1500 and $2000 at most to spend on a system?[]
I'm not a spoiled brat or anything, I work full time [^].

aim: johnnzen
email: [email protected]
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[Semi On]

If you don't replace the speakers you won't improve things much. Bose has a very specific design philosophy based upon some great marketing. They know that if they punch the upper bass and lower trebble range, those that don't know better will hear a loud thump and a twang and think the speaker is providing good response. In actuality, you get as much as a -40dB drop in the accoustic range outside of these two punctuated frequencies.

Changing the amp will do nothing to eliminate this. You need to toss both.

 

[rlipps]

Semi, couldn't you counter the bose by having your EQ frown at your rather than smile? That is how I have mine set up currently, bass -3, treble -2. I know that most people like to have their bass and treble up because it is gangsta and all, but then again most people wouldn't know the difference between MB Quart Q series and POS Kenwood speakers.

 

[rlipps]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by johnnzen

I'm in the same boat as trojan pony here but how bout if you had $1500 and $2000 at most to spend on a system?[]
I'm not a spoiled brat or anything, I work full time [^].

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

How about you go and do this. I am assuming you have the coupe.

6.5" MB Quart Q Series Components ~$570
6.5" MB Quart Q Series Mid Bass (for rear fill right behind seats) ~$400
MB Quart KTC Tri-Way 6x9s ~$200
MB Quart Premium Series 10 or 12 inch sub ~$300-450
A Nice 5 Channel Amplifier of your choice with about $400-$500 to spend on it.

This would be a very very nice set up. If you would prefer silk Tweeters over Metallic then I can recommend some set ups using Focal(metallic), Massive(silk), or Polk(silk). Just let me know.

 

[Semi On]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Semi, couldn't you counter the bose by having your EQ frown at your rather than smile? That is how I have mine set up currently, bass -3, treble -2. I know that most people like to have their bass and treble up because it is gangsta and all, but then again most people wouldn't know the difference between MB Quart Q series and POS Kenwood speakers.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

That depends on what the EQ is affecting. If that setting reduces everything typically in the "treble" band, then you still have the punctuation, and more importantly, the massive dropoff outside of it, but all at a lower gain, for example. If it happens to affect specifically the 14kHz range, and gradually outside of that at a curve similar to the dropoff, then your solution would work very well.

As always, a real EQ would be incredibly beneficial.

 

[johnnzen]

That's awesome! I'm actually getting the sedan. I figure i'll just look up in the manual on the sedan midrange, tweeter, woofer locations and stuff and replace it from there.

I'm researching before hand so I can save up accordingly.

I'm a big audiophile but only recently have I moved into automobile audio. (I was into the earphone/home systems stuff)

I'm shooting more for silk tweeters.

If only I could get the premium without Bose...[!]

aim: johnnzen
email: [email protected]
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[rlipps]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On

If it happens to affect specifically the 14kHz range, and gradually outside of that at a curve similar to the dropoff, then your solution would work very well.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
This is the effect that I was hoping to achieve. I have noticed a little bit better SQ from having my "EQ" set to the afforementioned. But like you said,
<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
As always, a real EQ would be incredibly beneficial.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

However, without knowing what frequencies the Bose specifically enhances, I would rather spend time doing things from the ground up than trying to tweak an overrated, and already over-extended speaker set-up. Wouldn't you agree?

 

[rlipps]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by johnnzen


I'm a big audiophile but only recently have I moved into automobile audio. (I was into the earphone/home systems stuff)

I'm shooting more for silk tweeters.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

The home audio experience gives explanation for your wanting silk tweeters rather than metallic. Typically in home theatres you want a natural aural experience, thus placing yourself into the enviorment. In a car you look for the "Let's make it sound like I am in a concert hall" kind of sound. Although the metallic tweets can be harsh (sharp) and "tingy" at times, they also very accurately reproduce the sounds created in a recording studio. Silk tweeters in a car can at times be too "dull" or not "tingy" enough (when listening to techno/rap/other digitally created music). However, in a car it is very easy to fix the problems found in both set ups merely by tuning the speakers correctly, or having the right speaker set up. It all turns into a matter of preference. I personally like the fact that with metallic tweeters I can have the tweeters running on a -6db gain in the crossover and still have it just as loud (or louder) as a silk set running on a 0db gain. Thus the metallic tweeters are running on less energy and with less heat and produce the same effect. Also, most SQ contests are won with metallic tweets.

However, I completely understand you desire for silk tweets. Sometimes it would be nice to have both on a switch[], but we can't have everything now can we... So with that said...
Whenever you are ready to start shopping just let us know and we (Semi, the others, and I) can help you out with our own experiences and know-how. Until then, happy listening.[phones]

 

[Semi On]

trojanpony

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'm a big audiophile but only recently have I moved into automobile audio. (I was into the earphone/home systems stuff)

I'm shooting more for silk tweeters.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

I've heard silk tweeters that were unnecessarily bright and metal tweeters that were pathetically laid back. Listen to your ears, not a predisposition based on materials.

rlipps,

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">However, without knowing what frequencies the Bose specifically enhances, <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

200Hz and 14kHz if memory serves.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I would rather spend time doing things from the ground up than trying to tweak an overrated, and already over-extended speaker set-up. Wouldn't you agree?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

Absolutely.

 

[rlipps]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On



200Hz and 14kHz if memory serves.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

You rock. Do you know if it is just a complete spike at 200Hz and 14kHz? Or is there a steady gain from 200Hz down and 14kHz up?

 

[Semi On]

I know I've seen frequency response curves online before. Some due googling would probably turn it up. I couldn't tell you off the top of my head what degree the slope is. I remember it dropping down to -40dB at the extremes but I couldn't graph for you the pace at which it gets there.

 

[struan87]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rlipps
You rock. Do you know if it is just a complete spike at 200Hz and 14kHz? Or is there a steady gain from 200Hz down and 14kHz up?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
It's not a spike, it's called a "shelf" and looks pretty much like a shelf. Your response curve will go like this:
__/----\__
if you have the highs and lows turned down. The decibel difference is the difference between the flat part of the curve and 0db; the steepness of the curve depends on the way the crossover is built. A 1st-order crossover (the simplest and cheapest) is 6db per octave, I think.

2003 Sedan 6MT | Sport/Aero/Premium | Desert Platinum/Willow | Fuzzy dice | Pictures

 

[rlipps]

All right. Thanks a lot, I just didn't know if you knew it off hand. I will have to do a search later on. Guess I am getting lazy with my googling skills.

 

[Semi On]

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It's not a spike, it's called a "shelf" and looks pretty much like a shelf. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

While this is true of just about every other speaker design, I don't believe it to be the case with Bose. From what I've read, there's a pretty serious depression BETWEEN those two frequencies as well.

 

[johnnzen]

Alright..I'll be shooting for the quartz setup and reading bout other stuff, but for now i'm going to be spending time looking to understand everything you guys wrote and the whole audio works[bigeyes]...www.howstuffworks.com..that site is a life saver..

Thanks for all the help! You guys are awesome![bowdown]

i'll b back at this topic soon[^]



aim: johnnzen
email: [email protected]
|Premium Sedan|Aero|Sports Pkg|

 

[rlipps]

Stru, I believe you are correct about the 1st order crossover. However, as Semi said, I don't believe that the Bose is that simple. I will try to find some write ups on it, I have heard that they have very sharp spikes. Bose has been known to do very funny things with their car audio systems, e.g. abnormal impedences.