<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by vanos_villain
And no, the SMG is not an automatic. Automatics do not have clutches. I, too, prefer a traditional manual to the SMG, but to say it isn't "technically" a manual transmission is wrong.
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The difference between MT and AT is clutch vs. viscous coupling. SMGs have a clutch, therefore they are mechanically identical to MTs. You get more of your power to the road because there's a hard connection between the engine and the wheels instead of the fluid filled chamber ATs have.
"struan87 you are way better than Google!" --BCole Pictures.
Actually, vanos... I do cite stop-&-go traffic as the reason I got an AT. Daily commuting in California is not exactly what I would call the ultimate driving experience. I love to "drive" stick, but would prefer to not have to shift in traffic every single day.
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I actually live in So.Cal as well, and have had to commute on the 91, 5, and 405 w/ my manual. Never did it bother me. Like I said though, preferences. =)
ever since i was a kid all i could think about is getting behind the wheel. not just any wheel, one with a manual. the driving expiercing with a stick is completely different from paddle shifting and any manumatics. i drive an automatic right now, but that is simply because i had no choice in the matter (i didn't buy the car) and i guarantee every other car i buy will be a manual. on top of that there is MUCH more control over your car with a manual. i'll be highly upset if i find car companies start phasing out true manuals. that is the case with most young male drivers.
<font color="blue">Future Car
Infiniti G35 SC | 6mt | Black on Black |4 Piece Aero Kit | 15% Tint | Black Spoked Rims | Smoked Tail Lights | Injen Cold Air | Borla Exhaust | Eibach Springs </font id="blue">[phones]
Manuals will be available until the new technologies no longer require compromising sportiness, flexibility (driver involvment only when you want to be involved and not when you're sitting in traffic) comfort and fuel efficiency.
manuals still offer the best of sportiness and driver involvment and control, as well as fuel effieciency
Automatics (including steptronics) are too much of a compromise for the true enthoutiast (Gosh.. I need a spell check in here !!)
SMG's are a good choice, but still expensive.
Audi is currently experimenting with two technologies (CVT and Robotized dual clutch manuals which is a variation iof SMG)
As these technologies become cheaper and more reliable, and offer less compromise and more flexibility, then we'll all gladly say good bye to our beloved good ol'manual trannies
Rami
2004 6 speed MT Coupe DG/Willow/Premium/XM
Pedals/Clear Corners/k&N Air filter/40% Huper Tint
Kloh and jl9618, I completely agree with you guys. And don't worry, there are plenty of people like us in the auto industry. We all have to drive what we make, so we'll keep making them.
Case in point, the new Porsche super car Carrera GT comes only as standard manual. Even though their mass production cars only had autostick, they certainly have the racing experience to make an SMG/Paddle shift type tranny. They could have done it just to follow the super car fashion. But they made a race car light flywheel, and the good old manual, and just tells the driver -- if you have the money to buy this biatch, spend some learning to drive it and enjoy it!!!
04 Sedan 6MT/Caribbean Blue/Willow/Aero/Sunroof/Bose/Free broken Infiniti pen
I think we'll see a shift to SMGs, but there's enough of a market that manuals won't disappear for a while. Also, I believe manuals are still very popular outside the US.
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"struan87 you are way better than Google!" --BCole Pictures.
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First, the 6MT sedan costs less than the 5AT sedan.
Second, all 6MT G35s come with the sport package. That means on a sedan they're paying you to take the sport suspension for a discounted price by choosing a manual.
If I had bought the automatic sedan w/sport suspension I think my car would have been at least $2000 more expensive than it was.
You're right about the coupes getting bonus things with the 6MT. The Brembos, 18" wheels, and Pilot Sport tires easily add a 2000+ dollars to the value of the car (You even get bonus titanium tinted interior trim). I can see why they'd charge more for the MT. The 6MT sedan, however, is a real bargain. Unfortunately the 6MT sedan is rather rare.
The 6MT G cost more than the AT, for example. But I think it's because of the standards that come with the 6MT that makes it more expensive. Am I wrong cuz I'm not sure, maybe it is because it's a 6MT it's more expensive.
6MT Coupe 'The rice is mightier than the corn'
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SMG isn't exactly an auto in the classic sense. Automatics in the classic sense use torque converters. SMG is basically a normal manual except a computer controls the clutch. Last I checked the BMW SMG shifts quite fast ... most tests I've seen show the SMG shifting faster than a human. I recall reading about that about 2 years ago so the new SMG in the upcoming M5 should be even quicker. Just about any high market sports car with a SMG system shifts faster than 99.9% of humans
Oh, yeah. As far as speed goes, humans (including Michael Schumacher) are no match to the slowest SMG's/Paddle shifts. But if the software allow the hardware to complete the shift in 20ms like the F1 cars, you're gonna get a head banging jerk every shift...like the F1 cars -- no way around physics. So the speed of the shift is pretty much up to the software design to suit the characteristics of the car.
Even so, most SMG shifts are still tuned to be faster than most human because they can do it more consistently. However, people perceive the SMG to be slower sometimes because of the lack of involvement -- after the button push, you will be waiting for the completion rather than working hard to get it done fast and smoothly.
But again, no matter how good SMG is, the driver is not involved enough. Like Rami said, if there is a technology that gives the driver choice of involvement level from one second to the next, it might replace it.
04 Sedan 6MT/Caribbean Blue/Willow/Aero/Sunroof/Bose/Free broken Infiniti pen
Case in point, the new Porsche super car Carrera GT comes only as standard manual. Even though their mass production cars only had autostick, they certainly have the racing experience to make an SMG/Paddle shift type tranny. They could have done it just to follow the super car fashion. But they made a race car light flywheel, and the good old manual, and just tells the driver -- if you have the money to buy this biatch, spend some learning to drive it and enjoy it!!!
theres a huge difference between true sports car lovers when it comes to manual. most true sport cars are manual, theres just not that much satisfaction of having tiptronic when you can whip thru gears. because having control of the car is a major reason to have stick. case in point, my buddy bought an automatic g, he said he was tired of driving stick in traffic. if yo ulook at his car it looks like ap iece of shit, dirty, not taken care of. the car is merely a method of transportation, hes not into the sportyness of it. i drive the same route and have to drive farther too. when i bought my tacoma it was automatic and man did i miss the manual. now its a joy to drive my car.
Chris Oak
04 G35 6mt/black/black leather/spoiler/sunroof/brembos/MTEC lights/injen cai
I don't like SMG because you cannot skip gears. Downshifting from 5th to 1st could take a while depending on how good the gearbox is since you have to go 5-4-3-2-1. But I can double-clutch and be in 1st in 2 seconds tops. To me, SMG would be annoying when you come to a stoplight and have to click downshift so many times to get back to 1st or 2nd.
Of course some people prefer rowing through all the gears (Nigel Mansell).
I don't like SMG because you cannot skip gears. Downshifting from 5th to 1st could take a while depending on how good the gearbox is since you have to go 5-4-3-2-1. But I can double-clutch and be in 1st in 2 seconds tops. To me, SMG would be annoying when you come to a stoplight and have to click downshift so many times to get back to 1st or 2nd.
Of course some people prefer rowing through all the gears (Nigel Mansell).
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Hmmm good point.
It does not take long to flick the paddle several times. Riding a motorcycle is the same as a SMG without the automatics. You have to flick the lever for each gear change.
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