shit, this is a whole lot better than what Enron did to us in 2000!
I disagree, Enron screwed all the employees and most everyone in the US that had part of the money invested maybe in mutual funds that had Enron.
Basically for most people, they had a dip on their statements on their 401K paper work but life was pretty much the same for everyone except those working at Enron, they got totally screwed.
This will be coming after every one of us to the tune of 3-400 dollars a month! Maybe some of you are unaffected by that but for me, I don't have 400 dollars of disposable income to donate to some lame brain assine scheme!
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2004 Desert Platinum Coupe, Bose, Sunroof,
2010 Blizzard Pearl Toyota Highlander
I disagree, Enron screwed all the employees and most everyone in the US that had part of the money invested maybe in mutual funds that had Enron.
Basically for most people, they had a dip on their statements on their 401K paper work but life was pretty much the same for everyone except those working at Enron, they got totally screwed.
This will be coming after every one of us to the tune of 3-400 dollars a month! Maybe some of you are unaffected by that but for me, I don't have 400 dollars of disposable income to donate to some lame brain assine scheme!
Do you not remember them manipulating the California power market and encouraging blackouts so that they could inflate the prices? They screwed California royally! Before it was deregulated, there was ample power, after deregulation, Enron bought out PGE (pacific gas electric) and had all of California at its mercy.
^^^Puhlease.........now that your boy has spent hundreds of billions of dollars everything is A-OK? Bush might be a dufus, but he has not done anywhere near what Obama has done to turn us into a big pile of steaming poo.
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Now I'm just laid bad - G35Princess
R.I.P. MBC
Oh my, there is so much wrong with that statement since I believe only a handful of people understand what this will do to each and everyone of us on a very personal level.
This will devastate people lives! We're talking thousands of dollars that everyone on this forum will have to ante up. We are not talking about some splinter groups isolated in various geographic pockets of the nation. This is everyone, the whole nation.
My electric bill arrived today, it was 179 dollars, under Obama's lame brain scheme it will easily have doubled up to 358.00 or more and I have not even come to the peak power bills in July and August.
This is the most dangerous piece of legislation ever to be placed on the floor in congress and it is some scary sh*t.
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2004 Desert Platinum Coupe, Bose, Sunroof,
2010 Blizzard Pearl Toyota Highlander
^^I'm not worried. I live in California so I'm used to the standards. Furthermore, as long as no one threatens me with some rolling blackout to price gouge, then I'm on board with it.
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"The Road is better than the end." - Chuck Jones
^^^Puhlease.........now that your boy has spent hundreds of billions of dollars everything is A-OK? Bush might be a dufus, but he has not done anywhere near what Obama has done to turn us into a big pile of steaming poo.
He inherited a steaming pile of poo with a trillion dollar deficit. What did you expect him to do, wave his wand so it all magically disappears?
It was February 2008 when I wrote this post and at that time, you said everything was hunky dory in your state. That was when unemployment was was reaching 8% in California. Now it's nearly 12% and that's only information from the people who applied for unemployment. People who file 1099's like myself are not even counted so it is definitely much much higher.
So now over a year later our troops our getting pulled out of the quagmire that is Iraq, and we got a little bit of socialism injected into our system and my outlook is more positive. FDR did similar actions in the 1930s and so did Great Britain after WWII.
Has my state changed dramatically? No, but I'm patient and so far we're all right.
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"The Road is better than the end." - Chuck Jones
well this should help the housing market stay in the shitter.
This will prevent people from selling theirs homes because of the price to bring them up to current "standards." If people aren't selling houses fewer people will be buying houses.
He inherited a steaming pile of poo with a trillion dollar deficit. What did you expect him to do, wave his wand so it all magically disappears?
It was February 2008 when I wrote this post and at that time, you said everything was hunky dory in your state. That was when unemployment was was reaching 8% in California. Now it's nearly 12% and that's only information from the people who applied for unemployment. People who file 1099's like myself are not even counted so it is definitely much much higher.
So now over a year later our troops our getting pulled out of the quagmire that is Iraq, and we got a little bit of socialism injected into our system and my outlook is more positive. FDR did similar actions in the 1930s and so did Great Britain after WWII.
Has my state changed dramatically? No, but I'm patient and so far we're all right.
Update on my state - Economically Hawaii is still better off than most in the nation despite our reliance on tourism and how it's tapered off. The situation might worsen as the State is currently trying to push a forced 3 day off per/month on it's employees. This is to avoid major layoffs to account for projected budget shortfalls. If the Gov is forced to order layoffs it will most certainly change for the worse.
Pullout from Iraq - Not quite the way Obama envisioned. Funny how his perspectice changes as he's advised of what can happen if the pullout followed his original intended course of action.
Socialism in the US - OK, I'm with you here to a point. However my faith in the US government (both at the Fed and local level) is obviously much less than yours. Most of the people in the public sector are imbeciles, lazy, douchebags, [stick in your most favorite cutdown here].
You mention FDR, whom I consider to be the greatest President of the 20th century. While he was revolutionary in his view of how to crush the Great Depression, you would be well advised to detail to the others here how the US was really brought out of the Great Depression by WWII, not the New Deal.
Your state - Not much different? Last time I checked you guys are getting pretty near bankruptcy. So no, things are not much the same from my perspective.
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Now I'm just laid bad - G35Princess
R.I.P. MBC
well spending money we don't have making the previous deficit look like chump change isn't a way to fight deficits
You may notice how gamma avoids the issue of throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at bailing out companies. Since the incumbent is now a Democrat, everything is OK.........
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Now I'm just laid bad - G35Princess
R.I.P. MBC
^^^^ I noticed and I am in disbelief that ANYONE is just hunky dory fine and dandy with cap and trade.
Do people "not get it", when you remove and additional $3000.00 from everyone that pays a light bill, how much left are they going to have to spend on things that run the economy? Cars, appliances, TVs, trips to vacation spots, gone, finished, wiped out. Massive layoffs to the likes you have never seen.
Can full scale riots be that far removed at that point?
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2004 Desert Platinum Coupe, Bose, Sunroof,
2010 Blizzard Pearl Toyota Highlander
If you fear the ramifications of less disposable income in the private sector, you should be terrified at the reality of less disposable income in the Gov't sector. In any economy, a limited amount of savings is available for everyone to borrow. The more Washington borrows from that pool to finance its debt, the lower the amount left for small business loans, mortgage loans, car loans or student loans.
This is why interest rates are spiking, and will continue to spike. The result will be less business investment (and therefore less job creation), and an even worse housing market. And if China stops lending us its savings, the pool from which to borrow will shrink even more, pushing interest rates even higher. Not that it matters much, foreign investors will demand higher interest rates to compensate for the additional U.S. credit risk as the dollar continues to fall.
Large government debt also means large government interest payments. Under Obama's budget, spending just to cover net interest would nearly quintuple from $170 billion this year to $806 billion by 2019. At that point, 16 cents out of every dollar in federal spending would go toward interest on the debt. Americans already suffering from high interest rates and sluggish growth would face large additional tax hikes just to pay these interest costs.
Obama and his advisers certainly know this debt growth isn't sustainable. But even as the negative consequences of Obama's unprecedented spending are already being felt, the White House's top 2009 priority is to accelerate the spending spree by creating a huge health-care entitlement. wtf?!
Inherited? Obama's budget would run deficits averaging $1 trillion a year for the next decade and, clearly, these deficits are not merely a temporary result of the inherited recession. If Obama has his way, the national debt would more than double. He would run up as much government debt as every president in US history from George Washington to George W. Bush -- combined. Put simply, he'd dump nearly $85,000 per household of new debt into the laps of our children and grandchildren over the next decade.
Never has the Federal Government been so out of control, or populace apathetic. Maybe they are shell-shocked after seeing what happens when a housing bubble bursts. Thanks to runaway spending, the debt bubble may be next and it will cause magnitudes of misery far greater and far more reaching than anything experienced by this generation so far.
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Government Subsidized Transportation
"There’s a point at which you’ve got to ask yourself, what are we doing here? What’s the point?”
That’s Elaine Kamarck, a former Clinton administration official and advisor to at that time Vice President Gore, and she’s talking about the Waxman-Markey cap and trade bill. In order to garner enough votes to pass the House of Representatives, policymakers made so many promises that even groups like Greenpeace are questioning the environmental effectiveness of the bill.
One of the most contentious provisions in the bill is the use of offsets to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, in which “a manufacturing plant in, say, Gary, Ind., that is exceeding its ‘permitted’ expulsion of CO2, could continue to commit this sin against humanity by paying for a Brazilian farmer to plant some trees in the rain forest. A more patriotic company might achieve the same result by paying an Iowa former to implement more ‘Earth-friendly’ farming practices. Of course, to guard against some nefarious polluter trying to cheat Uncle Sam and the world by claiming bogus ‘offsets,’ here must be a monitoring mechanism. Enter the ‘Offsets Integrity Advisory Board’ — yet another group of scientific ‘experts’ that would be tasked with compiling a list of qualifying offsets around the globe.”
Cap and trade is a regulatory nightmare that would hand over more power and money to the government with the intention of reducing global temperatures. The problem is the Waxman-Markey cap and trade bill will only reduce temperatures by an amount almost too small to measure. The bigger problem is that consumers’ pocketbooks will be hit hard --real hard-- by this bill. The Center for Data Analysis found that by 2035, gasoline prices would increase 58 percent, natural gas prices would increase 55 percent, home heating oil would increase 56 percent, and worst of all, electricity prices would jump 90 percent. After all, the goal of cap and trade is to drive up energy prices so high that people will use less. Yet, even today in Missouri, state legislators are considering a bill that would charge consumers for SAVING electricity. wtf?!
The lingering question is: How on earth did this bill pass? Through the back door, of course. “At a time when some still saw Obama as too inexperienced to adapt to Washington’s backroom ways, Waxman found the president perfectly ready to accept the only strategy that offered hope of success: Sitting down with each group affected by the bill and trading concessions for support.” Yet, many of the same companies that hired lobbyists to help shape the 1,200-page bill and that will receive handouts in the short-term will inevitably face significant economic pain in subsequent years from drastically higher energy prices. They will have to shed jobs or ship them overseas. How does that help the U.S.? Does anyone think beyond immediate enrichment anymore?
As the climate change debate moves to the Senate, it’s important to remember Elaine Karmarck’s two questions. What are we doing here? What’s the point?
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Government Subsidized Transportation
As the climate change debate moves to the Senate, it’s important to remember Elaine Karmarck’s two questions. What are we doing here? What’s the point?
Why we are destroying the economy of course. While American citizens are asleep at the wheel and apathy has become the new religion, we have opened the door and ready to jump. Too bad we forgot to wear a parachute.
Quote:
Cap and Trade “would be the equivalent of an atomic bomb directed at the U.S. economy—all without any scientific justification,” said famed climatologist Dr. S. Fred Singer. It would significantly increase taxes and the cost of energy, forcing many companies to close, thus increasing unemployment, poverty and dependence.
Cap and trade represents huge taxes and cost increases, which will hurt mostly the poor and the middle class. Cap and trade will give dictatorial powers to Obama and will further enrich his billionaire friends (Gore, Soros, Goldman Sachs, Obama’s Chicago Climate Exchange friends, GE, the United Nations, etc.) -- all at our expense and at the expense of our children and grandchildren.
Washington, D.C.-During a hearing today in the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, EPA Administrator Jackson confirmed an EPA analysis showing that unilateral U.S. action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions would have no effect on climate.
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