Great Article!!

[Zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by gammawolf

what is he trying to prove? gravity? that the earth is round? like the article that Neft posted, it is an opinion based on his long established career. an opinion that looks at the position of Earth in our galaxy and the relative universe from which he has extensively studied, and he elaborates on its idiosyncrasies. he doesn't try to prove anything, it's simply an observation.

I never argued the content of the video. No matter how esteemed an individual he might be gamma he's a person. Just as any other person, he has a philosophy of life. Like any other individual on earth his philosophy holds no more merit than any other person. Sure he's a person to be respected and honored, but no so in the realm of personal opinion/observation/philosophy. If you do so, you give the same credit to the teachings of Jesus/Budda/Mohamed/etc. That was my point.

Do I agree with his philosophy? Well I could answer you that, but I think it's rather irrelevent to the original discussion. If you must know, I do tend to think he's got some great points and rather spot on observations.

[gammawolf]

I see.

Personally, I consider him our modern day Confucius.

[Neftali II]

Gamma, & whoever else, read this...
From Bible Questions Answered which answers it better than i can!!
Also, i suggest an unbiased perusal through that site, maybe can answer other questions you might have!!

Question: "Do faith in God and science contradict?"

Answer: Science is defined as “the observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.” Science is a method that mankind can use to gain a greater understanding of the natural universe. It is a search for knowledge through observation and guesswork. Advances in science demonstrate the reach of human logic and imagination. However, a Christian’s belief in science should never be like our belief in God. A Christian can have faith in God and respect for science, as long as we remember which is perfect, and which is not.

Our belief in God is a belief of faith. We have faith in His Son for salvation, faith in His Word for instruction, and faith in His Holy Spirit for guidance. Our faith in God should be absolute, since when we put our faith in God, we depend on a perfect, omnipotent, omniscient Creator. Our belief in science should be intellectual – and nothing more. We can count on science to do many great things, but we can also count on science to make mistakes. If we put faith in science, we depend on imperfect, sinful, limited mortal men. Science throughout history has been dead wrong about many things, such as the shape of the Earth, powered flight, vaccines, blood transfusions, even reproduction. God has never been proven wrong.

Truth is nothing for any Christian to fear, so there is no reason for a Christian to fear or hate good science. Learning more about the way God constructed our universe helps all of mankind appreciate the wonder of creation. Expanding our knowledge helps us to combat disease, ignorance, and misunderstanding. However, there is danger when scientists hold their faith in human logic above faith in our Creator. These persons are no different than anyone devoted to a religion – they have chosen faith in Man, and will find facts to defend it.

Still, the most rational scientists, even those who refuse to believe in God, admit to a lack of completeness in our understanding of the universe. They will admit that neither God nor the Bible can be proved or disproved by science, just as many of their favorite theories ultimately cannot be proved or disproved. Science is meant to be a truly neutral discipline, seeking only the truth, not proof of an agenda. And God has always intended us to come to Him through faith, not through logic.

Much of science supports the existence and work of God. Psalm 19:1 says, “The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of His hands.” As modern science discovers more about the universe, we find more evidence of Creation. The amazing complexity and replication of DNA, the intricate and interlocking laws of physics, and the absolute harmony of conditions and chemistry here on earth all serve to support the message of the Bible. A Christian should embrace science that seeks the truth, but reject the “priests of science” who put human knowledge above God.

[Zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by gammawolf

I see.

Personally, I consider him our modern day Confucius.

I beg your pardon gamma. Either you have a low opinion of Confucius or you consider that guy on a level he hasn't yet acheived???

I don't know how much you know about Confucius, but that guy lived into his 70's, but he was a teacher for only about 20 of those years. Which he spent travelling around China with his diciples. From those teachings he has impacted most, if not all of, Asia for the past 2500 years. I think you jump the gun by lumping this guy, although a very respectable individual, with the likes of Confucius. Who, although not a man of religion, has fathered something akin to religion that has lasted for the past few millenias.

[msb3079]

Originally Posted by Neftali II

An obviously confuse Mike sez... think the problem is.....

most people look at the world as revolving around them and humanity. and in comes religion.
That is because the world revolves around them & humanity... GOD made us the moral beings... not the cat, you can't renounce this role as you are a creation!!
how do you figure?? you honestly think the world revolves around CREATION?? i think that's just silly. but to each their own.... how do you know "God made us moral beings"? how do you KNOW?
but if you look at it the opposite way.. that after X amount of time.. eventually conditions were right for life. and eventually right for us.... and we are just a spec of life... then things seem different.
& somehow this train of thought is less preposterous than GOD making us...??
How much time??
What conditions... how did 'conditions' come about int he first place??
What constitutes 'right'...??
We are just a species of life... but life nonetheless, & you sincerely believe life is something that can randomly occur??
Different is not what i would consider these things... completely implausible is more like it!!
Just because we don't know specifics.. doesnt mean it's not likely. While us humans think we know it all.. we think nothing.. we can't comprhend the beginning of time or maybe that there was no beginning in the since that we have made up a term "beginning"... just as a dog cannot comprehend the stock market (bad example).
Just because we can't fully comprhend it.. doesnt mean that answer is "God".. i mean .. really.. how convenient.
believe me.. i wish it were so convenient.
take for instance.. a breed that does not exist yet... this is an obvious rediculous exaggeration.. but say a Boxer dog boned a sheep.... and formed some crazy new species.... and that species good think and talk (i'm really exaggerating now).... and they think.. well OMG - some "God" had to have created us. When in fact some crazy thing just happened.
The thing the uninformed get confused w/ is current naming structures that are erroneously categorized as a species. i will not delve into a dog & a sheep producing offspring as i keep my arguments to factual operational science, not flights of fancy...!!
There are distinct animal groups, in this example, let's take the cat. There are the big cats (lions, cheetahs, snow leopards), mid cats (lynx, bobcats) & small cats (tabby, Siamese... your basic domestic variety). The common theme are that they are all cats due to available genetic information dictating this is part of the cat group... but is that really correct??
You can mate a lion & tiger & produce a tigron or liger because they are of the same group... but can you mate a tiger w/ a tabby... no, the reason being is because they fall into the group 'cat' but they are not of the same genus!!
@ the time of the flood, they were probably many different combos w/in each group that would amaze us today if we saw them, but would have been pretty common place back then, also due to the lines being packed w/ yummy genetic code... not lost due to migrations, natural selection, separation, mutation, inbreeding (causes heavy loss)or environment adaptability (which is still seen today but in a recessive form, like the Bengal tiger, or king cheetah, or the Maltese panther, making it a very rare occurrence)!!
The point is that there is no real distinction among the groups, just different varieties of the cat group to which each belongs!!
The same w/ humans... we are not different species of humans... we are all of the same group, no difference... just loss of information & homogeneity due to factors, which i have listed above... which cause dominant traits to occur & become mainstays, causing incorrect 'groups' such as Chinese, Indian, etc.!!
All of us are descended from Adam, all of us can successfully mate into another 'group', w/o hindrance... why, there is only one group...!!
Do you know there is only one skin color?? What gives us such delightful shades & variances is the amount of melanin... if we all had the same level, we would all be the same 'color'... Adam, Eve, & their decedents were bursting @ the seams w/ genetic information... so much so, anytime a woman gave birth, she probably never knew what she was getting... some kids darker than others, different eyes, hair...etc.!!
(i can go much deeper if requested)

well my example was taken too literally... i'm just asking you to look at what we know.. and what other species know and don't know and to compare them.... a lot of times things that are unknown and can't be answered are answered with "God".. because people know no better.

OK now i'm really off base.. but does anyone get where i'm going...?? I think it's "wishful thinking" the way we look at our existence.
Not that I appreciate it any less.. i think i actually appreciate it even more.

There is no need for wishful thinking when the answers are right there & available!!

but they arent -- thats the problem!!
[/quote]

[msb3079]

shit somehow i used the same color as you.. i'm a dumbass.

edit.. well its different but pretty damn close.

[Infiniti514]

i agree with Mike....things that cant be explained are just explained by saying, its God's work. thats not an explaination.....its more like a cop-out.

like when bad things happen, people say God has his reasons or God works in mysterious ways. and of course God gets credit for all the good things too.....its just one big loop hole so God can never look bad....even though for instance, 10's of 1000's of people died in that tsunami last year.....but God has his reasons!

[GZire]

Originally Posted by Infiniti514

i agree with Mike....things that cant be explained are just explained by saying, its God's work. thats not an explaination.....its more like a cop-out.................

750's underwear is not God's work, it's the Devil's work.

[poormansporsche]

Originally Posted by GZire

750's underwear is not God's work, it's the Devil's work.

So GZ, exactly what is your interest in working with 750's underwear again?

[drew1]

Interesting discussions.

Well, I don't take all of the Bible literally. Jesus' speaking in parables is an example of where it is not literal. Because of this, I think the creation in Genesis & the theory of Evolution are the same thing. I'm sure Moses, who is said to have written Genesis, didn't have the vocabulary & knowledge we have nowadays. Moses' day from the time animal life was created in the water until land animals doesn't literally agree with the millions of years from a single cell amoebe or paremesium to a land mammal. Moses described creation or evolution the best that he had words for.

What about humans evolving from apes? Genesis says God made man in his image. Does this mean God has a head & 2 hands & 2 feet? I think it means God gave us a soul like himself. I'll have to look it up, but a verse or 2 before God created man in his image, there is one of him saying "Let us make a man". Maybe the "us" include apes who gave us a similar body.

Do you reckon the Satan is messing things up by having science & Christianity oppose each other?

One of the most important things in the Bible, & it is literal, is, "By grace through faith are ye saved."

[GZire]

Originally Posted by poormansporsche

So GZ, exactly what is your interest in working with 750's underwear again?

You asked me to look into it you sicko.