How fooked up our Govt is

[ironrice]

Most companies in US avoid federal income taxes - Yahoo! News

Most US companies don't pay income tax. So the tax laws were designed to keep the rich rich and only people like us pay taxes. How fooked up is that. Pretty sure lobbiest and such helped to put shit like this in place. Time to get rich so I don't have to pay this bitch my money.

[thatguy]

should this be a surprise? so you pay a guy a bunch of money a year to find a way to not pay taxes. As long as said guy finds more tax savings than his salary company is ahead.

FYI no company pays any taxes, they collect them from the consumer, so sticking it to the companies is just sticking it to the consumer...

Here's one solution

[Gardiner]

Originally Posted by ironrice

keep the rich rich and only people like us pay taxes.

You need to find out who the rich are in the US, you might be very surprised! There are a lot of people in our country that make minimum wage, plus an amazing amount of people that actually have no income, such as spouses, prisoners, homeless people and government dependents.

Now if you look at the people that actually earn a living, only 3% of the US make over $250,000 a year. The per capita money income for the US in 2007 was $38,611. People making over $38,611 are in the top 50% by average. That means that 47% of wage earners in the US make between $38,611 and $250,000.

If you dig enough, you will find that many in the government feel if you make over $65,000 a year you are rich and you need to pay more taxes.

Obama has mention dollar amounts a few times, $250,000, $75,000 and the latest I heard was $31,000. He mentioned them as high wage earners.

Don't be fooled into the rich vs us war they are preaching, you just might be rich and not even know it.

[gammawolf]

this is fucked up, but did you also know about this? Corporations can just about get away with murder in this country.

Wal-Mart and its political action committees (PACs).
HDNet Original Programming - Dan Rather Reports
just watch the candid video through the 5:30 mark. If you want, see the whole 30 minute episode on Wal-Mart and how it has congregated all its managers to pass the hat around so it can donate to someone's political campaign. By law, Wal-Mart cannot do this directly, however, it figured out a loophole to do so and buy time and influence in Washington. The videos documenting these conferences were released because the video archive sub-contractor wanted more money for them, and Wal-Mart low balled them. So the videos went to public auction.

more FYI on Wal-Mart: USATODAY.com - Wal-Mart widens political reach, giving primarily to GOP

[Gardiner]

NationMaster - Gross National Income (per capita) (most recent) by country

#1 Luxembourg: $37,499.20 per person
#2 Switzerland: $36,987.60 per person
#3 Japan: $35,474.10 per person
#4 Norway: $35,053.30 per person
#5 United States: $33,070.30 per person
#6 Denmark: $30,191.50 per person
#7 Iceland: $27,473.80 per person
#8 Sweden: $25,105.50 per person
#9 United Kingdom: $24,486.70 per person
#10 Austria: $23,824.10 per person
#11 Netherlands: $23,770.30 per person
#12 Belgium: $23,639.50 per person
#13 Finland: $23,549.70 per person
#14 Germany: $23,534.80 per person
#15 France: $22,751.30 per person
#16 Ireland: $21,846.50 per person
#17 Brunei: $20,823.10 per person
#18 Canada: $20,789.50 per person
#19 Singapore: $20,066.00 per person
#20 Italy: $19,276.10 per person
#21 Australia: $19,213.50 per person
#22 United Arab Emirates: $19,198.30 per person
#23 Israel: $17,046.40 per person
#24 Kuwait: $15,992.20 per person
#25 French Polynesia: $15,023.50 per person
#26 Bahamas, The: $15,019.20 per person
#27 New Caledonia: $14,793.00 per person
#28 Spain: $14,575.70 per person
#29 New Zealand: $12,639.40 per person
#30 Cyprus: $12,013.60 per person
#31 Greece: $11,342.30 per person
#32 Puerto Rico: $10,752.20 per person
#33 Bahrain: $10,527.10 per person
#34 Portugal: $10,316.10 per person
#35 Slovenia: $9,670.48 per person
#36 Barbados: $9,373.50 per person
#37 Malta: $9,125.77 per person
#38 Antigua and Barbuda: $9,121.25 per person
#39 Saint Kitts and Nevis: $7,669.53 per person
#40 Trinidad and Tobago: $7,263.99 per person
#41 Saudi Arabia: $6,851.39 per person
#42 Seychelles: $6,628.55 per person
#43 Argentina: $6,575.95 per person
#44 Palau: $6,512.14 per person
#45 Uruguay: $5,617.49 per person
#46 Czech Republic: $5,303.18 per person
#47 Mexico: $5,178.76 per person
#48 Oman: $4,961.89 per person
#49 Hungary: $4,912.72 per person
#50 Lebanon: $4,596.19 per person
#51 Croatia: $4,429.86 per person
#52 Chile: $4,418.94 per person
#53 Poland: $4,253.33 per person
#54 Grenada: $4,051.06 per person
#55 Estonia: $3,956.04 per person
#56 Costa Rica: $3,913.18 per person
#57 Slovakia: $3,739.12 per person
#58 Mauritius: $3,730.45 per person
#59 Saint Lucia: $3,721.13 per person
#60 Dominica: $3,334.73 per person
#61 Latvia: $3,330.97 per person
#62 Malaysia: $3,311.76 per person
#63 Lithuania: $3,239.50 per person
#64 Botswana: $3,201.68 per person
#65 Panama: $3,011.20 per person
#66 Gabon: $2,861.97 per person
#67 Brazil: $2,842.36 per person
#68 South Africa: $2,751.22 per person
#69 Saint Vincent and the Grenadines: $2,698.74 per person
#70 Jamaica: $2,652.31 per person
#71 Belize: $2,586.68 per person
#72 Turkey: $2,397.32 per person
#73 Dominican Republic: $2,094.46 per person
#74 Tunisia: $1,983.58 per person
#75 Fiji: $1,964.59 per person
#76 Marshall Islands: $1,944.34 per person
#77 El Salvador: $1,943.43 per person
#78 Colombia: $1,898.58 per person
#79 Peru: $1,869.56 per person
#80 Thailand: $1,838.41 per person
#81 Bulgaria: $1,777.28 per person
#82 Russia: $1,764.05 per person
#83 Suriname: $1,737.69 per person
#84 Romania: $1,729.37 per person
#85 Namibia: $1,728.70 per person
#86 Macedonia, The Former Yugoslav Republic of: $1,690.26 per person
#87 Guatemala: $1,628.86 per person
#88 Maldives: $1,608.95 per person
#89 Algeria: $1,568.55 per person
#90 Jordan: $1,525.17 per person
#91 Samoa: $1,465.18 per person
#92 Cape Verde: $1,425.97 per person
#93 Tonga: $1,371.78 per person
#94 Kazakhstan: $1,322.15 per person
#95 Belarus: $1,248.60 per person
#96 Swaziland: $1,219.70 per person
#97 Djibouti: $1,199.84 per person
#98 Paraguay: $1,196.42 per person
#99 Albania: $1,189.14 per person
#100 Bosnia and Herzegovina: $1,137.01 per person
#101 Morocco: $1,059.75 per person
#102 Ecuador: $1,044.44 per person
#103 Turkmenistan: $1,038.53 per person
#104 Vanuatu: $1,030.82 per person
#105 Syria: $935.58 per person
#106 Philippines: $920.19 per person
#107 Bolivia: $911.32 per person
#108 China: $865.03 per person
#109 Guyana: $837.39 per person
#110 Honduras: $827.22 per person
#111 Sri Lanka: $817.91 per person
#112 Ukraine: $748.67 per person
#113 Kiribati: $747.44 per person
#114 Armenia: $728.13 per person
#115 Azerbaijan: $665.89 per person
#116 Georgia: $661.75 per person
#117 Equatorial Guinea: $618.21 per person
#118 Indonesia: $599.24 per person
#119 Cote d'Ivoire: $593.05 per person
#120 Angola: $567.12 per person
#121 Papua New Guinea: $545.74 per person
#122 Lesotho: $541.12 per person
#123 Uzbekistan: $514.73 per person
#124 Cameroon: $514.49 per person
#125 Zimbabwe: $506.89 per person
#126 Haiti: $480.52 per person
#127 Solomon Islands: $469.50 per person
#128 India: $441.56 per person
#129 Senegal: $405.06 per person
#130 Vietnam: $392.19 per person
#131 Pakistan: $369.70 per person
#132 Mongolia: $344.88 per person
#133 Bangladesh: $336.87 per person
#134 Guinea: $332.07 per person
#135 Nicaragua: $326.20 per person
#136 Moldova: $326.08 per person
#137 Comoros: $326.06 per person
#138 Mauritania: $323.77 per person
#139 Benin: $316.89 per person
#140 Kenya: $315.04 per person
#141 Zambia: $295.52 per person
#142 Nigeria: $288.37 per person
#143 Kyrgyzstan: $268.28 per person
#144 Gambia, The: $267.23 per person
#145 Sudan: $266.32 per person
#146 Ghana: $261.97 per person
#147 Tanzania: $255.97 per person
#148 Cambodia: $244.90 per person
#149 Bhutan: $236.95 per person
#150 Togo: $236.79 per person
#151 Central African Republic: $235.62 per person
#152 Madagascar: $232.47 per person
#153 Sao Tome and Principe: $228.29 per person
#154 Rwanda: $223.77 per person
#155 Mali: $219.55 per person
#156 Uganda: $217.40 per person
#157 Nepal: $210.66 per person
#158 Mozambique: $195.82 per person
#159 Burkina Faso: $187.64 per person
#160 Chad: $164.90 per person
#161 Niger: $162.89 per person
#162 Liberia: $158.32 per person
#163 Tajikistan: $153.77 per person
#164 Eritrea: $145.39 per person
#165 Guinea-Bissau: $141.02 per person
#166 Malawi: $134.28 per person
#167 Sierra Leone: $118.20 per person
#168 Ethiopia: $91.37 per person
#169 Burundi: $88.82 per person
#170 Libya: $0.00 per person
#171 Iraq: $0.00 per person
#172 Somalia: $0.00 per person

[the750]

i think there are more important issues than this... like the insane amount of people that don't even pay taxes... atleast the above mentioned corporations are helping to stimulate the economy and generating taxable monies via their employees salaries.

fix welfare, unemployment, food stamps and all of the other screwed up gvt programs and then worry about the big evil corporate bullies.

[poormansporsche]

Originally Posted by gammawolf

this is fucked up, but did you also know about this? Corporations can just about get away with murder in this country.

Wal-Mart and its political action committees (PACs).
HDNet Original Programming - Dan Rather Reports
just watch the candid video through the 5:30 mark. If you want, see the whole 30 minute episode on Wal-Mart and how it has congregated all its managers to pass the hat around so it can donate to someone's political campaign. By law, Wal-Mart cannot do this directly, however, it figured out a loophole to do so and buy time and influence in Washington. The videos documenting these conferences were released because the video archive sub-contractor wanted more money for them, and Wal-Mart low balled them. So the videos went to public auction.

more FYI on Wal-Mart: USATODAY.com - Wal-Mart widens political reach, giving primarily to GOP

I don't know if it means that they can get away with murder or not Gamma, but it is F'ed up. I think what is more frightening here, is that WalMart is acknowledging that their pac is relatively small in comparison to other pacs and that there are over 4000 pacs registered in this country. Rather than point the bad guy finger at WalMart (not that they don't deserve that finger), I think we need to point the finger across the board at all pacs (including unions and civil liberty types) and at this entire process of political influence. Regardless of who started it, the process needs to stop on a wholesale level because if any pacs are allowed to operate, then you can't realistically expect a responsible (to it's shareholders...ie. me and you in our 401k plans) corporation to forgo the opportunity and thereby be underrepresented at the table. Unfortunately, the game plans have been established now, and short of a total revamp, it's a hopelessly self perpetuating process. None of the players can afford not to continue to seek influence...it's like showing up to a gunfight with a knife. If we want to improve it, we need to disarm all the players....maybe go back to boxing gloves!??!

[gammawolf]

^^^it's all a corrupt fucking system that is in desperate need of an enema. you're right, it's not just Wal-Mart, it's about PACS all across the board. in the report it states that, but this was the first openly candid (that I know of) presentation on how a big corporation wants to gain influence in American politics and how to fund a PAC to get face time to press their influence. Of course hundreds of other companies do this, and it just makes me sick.

I mean, if we want a corrupt system, let's acknowledge that it's a corrupt system and work with a corrupt system. But if we talk about integrity and honesty, and only hold some people accountable while others get a free pass, what sort of bullshit is this? I'm sick of it.

[Zoomzoomers]

First of all, corps in the US do pay taxes. Where in the world did you get this info that corps do not pay taxes??? It's just that, depending on the state/city/etc., they are based in they can and do receive tax credits/breaks/etc. that sometimes allow them to pay very little overall taxes.

This system exists due to greed and those on both sides take advantage of it. Sometimes the general population benefit sometimes they don't.

[Zoomzoomers]

Gard: those figures of GNI are always misleading. It's an average so we don't have to be a scientist to understand that average includes everyone.

I mean in the US the average lawyer earns something like $35k per year. Of course, this includes attorneys in boonf*ckville etc. How many practicing lawyers do you know that make that little? Don't get stuck on averages they never tell the full story. Not to mention that if you earned $35k a year you wouldn't even be able to afford an apt. and a car these days.

[poormansporsche]

Originally Posted by gammawolf

^^^it's all a corrupt fucking system that is in desperate need of an enema. you're right, it's not just Wal-Mart, it's about PACS all across the board. in the report it states that, but this was the first openly candid (that I know of) presentation on how a big corporation wants to gain influence in American politics and how to fund a PAC to get face time to press their influence. Of course hundreds of other companies do this, and it just makes me sick.

I mean, if we want a corrupt system, let's acknowledge that it's a corrupt system and work with a corrupt system. But if we talk about integrity and honesty, and only hold some people accountable while others get a free pass, what sort of bullshit is this? I'm sick of it.

Agreed on all counts...

One particularly big culprit here though, that was never openly addressed, was all the politicians that take the money in the first place....they're caught up in the same viscious cycle.


Thinking about it turns my stomach too....I need a Tums!

[thatguy]

Originally Posted by Zoomzoomers

First of all, corps in the US do pay taxes. Where in the world did you get this info that corps do not pay taxes???...

They do NOT pay taxes, they COLLECT them from the consumer and pass it on to the government. Same with every other expense they incur. If their material goes up in price they pass the cost on to the consumer. If their taxes go up the pass the cost on to the consumer. If their taxes/material cost/overhead goes down all most all will pass this savings down to the consumer to stay competitive in the market.
Go ahead and tax the hell out of them and see what happens to the cost of the goods they produce...

Do you think any company pays the "matching" contributions of your payroll taxes? No! If they have $40k budgeted for labor they pay you $38k and the other $2k to the government on your behalf. (don't nit-pick the actual % it's just an example). So they stay within their $40k budget, if they didn't have that expense you would get $40k

[Zoomzoomers]

Originally Posted by thatguy

They do NOT pay taxes, they COLLECT them from the consumer and pass it on to the government. Same with every other expense they incur. If their material goes up in price they pass the cost on to the consumer. If their taxes go up the pass the cost on to the consumer. If their taxes/material cost/overhead goes down all most all will pass this savings down to the consumer to stay competitive in the market.
Go ahead and tax the hell out of them and see what happens to the cost of the goods they produce...

Do you think any company pays the "matching" contributions of your payroll taxes? No! If they have $40k budgeted for labor they pay you $38k and the other $2k to the government on your behalf. (don't nit-pick the actual % it's just an example). So they stay within their $40k budget, if they didn't have that expense you would get $40k

Ok, you're all over the place. The first part are you referring to sales taxes? That's about the only thing they collect from the buyer and pass it along to the state. When a corp. has a profit it's passed along to the owner, i.e. shareholders. When you receive a dividend is it not taxed???

Nuff said about that...

I don't even know where to start with your comment on the 401k statement. So I'll just leave it at that.

[thatguy]

what 401k statement??? Are you referring to the payroll tax comment? The medicare/medicaid FICA "matching" contributions that your employer makes along with your chunk from your paycheck?

Taxes are an expense of business, increase the expenses involved with doing business and the final product of that business costs more.

For example: if you are operating a business and you make $60K a year as the business owner, you're doing ok. Now the government (state or fed, whatever) says your business is now subject to a new tax that will set the business back $30k a year. Where do you get the money to pay said tax? Your own salary (aka shareholders)? Probably not! Cut employees, maybe? Try to save on overhead, you should be doing this already. Or do you pass the cost of this new expense on through the price of the product you produce? So who just payed the new tax? The end consumer!

[the750]

um, businesses DO in fact pay taxes. it's crazy to say no business pays taxes. there are loopholes and ways around paying (like zooms said) that some corporations find though which is what i think the article was about (i didnt read it). how in the world would a business have write offs if they did not have to pay taxes???