FYI, I checked, and that's the maximum rate. I could go a few stops further, culminating to about 20 miles or more and it would still be $2.50.
How far can you go on one gallon of gas? For how much?
18-24 miles depending on terrain, in city/highway and how I drive for $3.80. Or I could bike that distance for all of maybe $0.05 for water to fill my camelbak. Money savings isn't a compelling argument because really there is none; you pay $2.50 on the frontend which sounds like a deal, but then you pay how much in taxes to support it?
__________________
Everyone is finally equal. No one is smarter than anyone else. No one is stronger than anyone else. No one is better. Everyone is worse.
If public transportation is such a great thing, please tell me where (anywhere) that it is 100% self sufficient without any government props.
Can't recall ever saying I was 'too good' to use public transport, but I guess when you don't have anything else personal attacks are the tool of choice.
I see your point but what is 100% self sufficient. When was the last time someone came up to you and said "hey, its your turn to pay for the roads you drive on? or the stop lights you use? or the workers you pay to maintain such systems"? It seems like you want to wash off the greater good because it is not 100% sufficient. Will we be addressing global warming, environmental issues next? Yes... probably so because some will say there is no ozone layer and some will say it is...Is there a hole? Is smog real? Is smog safe? Is it get getting hotter? those will be the next conversations we have next. Don't worry about a system being 100% self sufficient, inflation will take care of that in time (if you know like I know)....
And dude, don't get so personal, it was not a personal attack I was addressing your statement and speaking to the masses. You and everyone else up here will know when my personal attacks come raining down....
18-24 miles depending on terrain, in city/highway and how I drive for $3.80. Or I could bike that distance for all of maybe $0.05 for water to fill my camelbak. Money savings isn't a compelling argument because really there is none; you pay $2.50 on the frontend which sounds like a deal, but then you pay how much in taxes to support it?
Depends on what I use. If its' the trolley, the average operating expense for rider is 1.59. If it's the bus, the average operating expense is $2.62.
That's not bad at all. And 1/4 of the 7.3% sales tax goes to public transportation in San Diego. So I still got you beat.
And considering how much is taxed on gasoline already (figure a lot more in California and New York), it's still very much a deal. Especially since the average price of gas around here is $4.28.
Ohhh, and I found an article that is very relevant to our discussion. U.S. reluctant to mirror Europe's high gas taxes | The San Diego Union-Tribune
""In Stockholm, the cooperation between railroads, the metro system, streetcars and bus lines is incredible," diplomat Brynjestad said. "You can buy one ticket to get on a local commuter train, transfer to the (subway) and then transfer onto a high-speed rail train to take you to another part of the country. It's real easy, especially since you can go down to corner and expect that a streetcar will be there in five minutes. It's not like San Diego, where it can take 45 minutes to get downtown from Pacific Beach."
I see your point but what is 100% self sufficient.
Not dependent upon anything but it's revenue stream to survive. Like the millions of businesses across the US that aren't given chunks of our tax monies to stay operational.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brikkman
When was the last time someone came up to you and said "hey, its your turn to pay for the roads you drive on?
Toll roads
Quote:
Originally Posted by brikkman
or the stop lights you use? or the workers you pay to maintain such systems"? It seems like you want to wash off the greater good because it is not 100% sufficient.
Road maintenance is not a private industry (sadly, it'd be significantly more efficient and less costly if it were) so your analogy falls apart from the get go. "The Greater Good"... What's the greater good in propping up a failed industry? If enough demand truly existed private entrepreneurs would have stepped up to fill the need.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brikkman
And dude, don't get so personal, it was not a personal attack I was addressing your statement and speaking to the masses. You and everyone else up here will know when my personal attacks come raining down....
Quote:
I would rather just hear you say, I do not want to ride lightrail because I'm too good for it rather than hear you say "its a money sink".
Implying that I wouldn't take light rail because "I'm too good for it" is a personal attack, no matter how you try to spin it.
__________________
Everyone is finally equal. No one is smarter than anyone else. No one is stronger than anyone else. No one is better. Everyone is worse.
FYI, I checked, and that's the maximum rate. I could go a few stops further, culminating to about 20 miles or more and it would still be $2.50.
How far can you go on one gallon of gas? For how much?
For my G it's 20 mpg or $4.50 or so. Per day it'd be $5.00 versus $9.00 with my G. Problem gets worse for the truck I drive at work which is around 14 mpg.
Anyhow....................down here were are embroiled in a Rail Transit issue. The core arguments are traffic congestion, increased gas prices, actual potential usage (who will use, who won't and for those who won't who benefits), and really I see the biggest one.........convenience.
Public transportation in the US is all about convenience. What is worth more to you. Unfortunately like Phelan is saying, most public transport is not self sufficient, but beholden to the Government for financial support otherwise it would fold.
__________________
Now I'm just laid bad - G35Princess
R.I.P. MBC
I see your point but what is 100% self sufficient. When was the last time someone came up to you and said "hey, its your turn to pay for the roads you drive on? or the stop lights you use? or the workers you pay to maintain such systems"? It seems like you want to wash off the greater good because it is not 100% sufficient. Will we be addressing global warming, environmental issues next? Yes... probably so because some will say there is no ozone layer and some will say it is...Is there a hole? Is smog real? Is smog safe? Is it get getting hotter? those will be the next conversations we have next. Don't worry about a system being 100% self sufficient, inflation will take care of that in time (if you know like I know)....
And dude, don't get so personal, it was not a personal attack I was addressing your statement and speaking to the masses. You and everyone else up here will know when my personal attacks come raining down....
Sorry, but getting off the original topic again.............light rail is currently being proposed in Hawaii for the island of Oahu. It's really a big issue and will likely decide who becomes the next mayor of the City & County of Honolulu.
Current Mayor wants light rail. Some people don't want light rail at all (Stop Rail Now, or SRN), one of whom is my former college transportation engineering professor, and the last group is one that wants a rapid transit system but it'd be tires instead or steel rail.........now on to your questions for Phelan.
Quote:
When was the last time someone came up to you and said "hey, its your turn to pay for the roads you drive on? or the stop lights you use? or the workers you pay to maintain such systems"?
That's what our C&C taxes are for. For me I just turned in a check for $1,600 and change. That's only for 1/2 of the year. As far as paying for the roads you drive on, the SRN folks want to establish a HOT (high occupancy toll road). You drive it and it's $3.00 each way per day.
$3/day X 2 times/day X 5 days/week X 50 weeks/year = $1,500 / year
HOT is a very pricey option.
Quote:
It seems like you want to wash off the greater good because it is not 100% sufficient. Will we be addressing global warming, environmental issues next?
I am on the fence about this. Unless you are using alternative energy sources (solar, wind, wave, geothermal, nuclear), your primary sources to power public transportation is still going to be gas, diesel, or coal.
Despite me not being able to use the proposed new rail system, I am for it. It probably won't be self sustaining and it needs to expand if the C&C of Honolulu wishes for more ridership because the primary users would be those working in Honolulu, those working/going to school at the University, and those going to and from Waikiki and the Airport.
I wanted to give you folks some real life situations that we are facing here in Hawaii as the theoretical situations can really get you off track.
__________________
Now I'm just laid bad - G35Princess
R.I.P. MBC
Not dependent upon anything but it's revenue stream to survive. Like the millions of businesses across the US that aren't given chunks of our tax monies to stay operational.
Toll roads
Road maintenance is not a private industry (sadly, it'd be significantly more efficient and less costly if it were) so your analogy falls apart from the get go. "The Greater Good"... What's the greater good in propping up a failed industry? If enough demand truly existed private entrepreneurs would have stepped up to fill the need.
Implying that I wouldn't take light rail because "I'm too good for it" is a personal attack, no matter how you try to spin it.
Oh, I'm sorry, here public transportation is federally backed. Probably because of government created inflation...
Who said road maintenance was private industry?
Failed industry?
Are you telling me every road you use is a toll road? You need to move dude if that's true.
And as far as the personal attacks...If you think I would be too scared to admit a personal attack over the "internet" you are outside of your mind. The internet is a playground for idoits to say whatever they want, if I mean it that way I would simply say it....In fact I will even apologize if you took that way....."can you spin that?"
Sorry, but getting off the original topic again.............light rail is currently being proposed in Hawaii for the island of Oahu. It's really a big issue and will likely decide who becomes the next mayor of the City & County of Honolulu.
Current Mayor wants light rail. Some people don't want light rail at all (Stop Rail Now, or SRN), one of whom is my former college transportation engineering professor, and the last group is one that wants a rapid transit system but it'd be tires instead or steel rail.........now on to your questions for Phelan.
That's what our C&C taxes are for. For me I just turned in a check for $1,600 and change. That's only for 1/2 of the year. As far as paying for the roads you drive on, the SRN folks want to establish a HOT (high occupancy toll road). You drive it and it's $3.00 each way per day.
$3/day X 2 times/day X 5 days/week X 50 weeks/year = $1,500 / year
HOT is a very pricey option.
I am on the fence about this. Unless you are using alternative energy sources (solar, wind, wave, geothermal, nuclear), your primary sources to power public transportation is still going to be gas, diesel, or coal.
Despite me not being able to use the proposed new rail system, I am for it. It probably won't be self sustaining and it needs to expand if the C&C of Honolulu wishes for more ridership because the primary users would be those working in Honolulu, those working/going to school at the University, and those going to and from Waikiki and the Airport.
I wanted to give you folks some real life situations that we are facing here in Hawaii as the theoretical situations can really get you off track.
Not sure if you were agreeing or disagreeing at top, but I will address the "I'm on the fence about this" part:
Yeah, gas diesel, or coal maybe, but you have to trim it some how. Just because it will possible not fix the entire issue doesn't mean we should sway away from its demand and hold on us. 10% enthanol is a start. I heard about a guy using grease and anothing using hydrogen. Not practical right now I know but it does speak to the fact that their are possible options. When the model T came out, no one thought we woudl have what we have today!!! true story??????
...Are you telling me every road you use is a toll road?...
Ever been to Oklahoma?
The only direction you can go out of Tulsa on a major highway and not pay a toll is north, and when you take that tollraod to the state line the road gets amazingly BETTER when you leave the state, and its free on the other side of the line...
Ever been to Oklahoma?
The only direction you can go out of Tulsa on a major highway and not pay a toll is north, and when you take that tollraod to the state line the road gets amazingly BETTER when you leave the state, and its free on the other side of the line...
We "use" to have toll roads here when I was young. Once the immediate transportation issue was retro funded, they took them down. Because we have ridiculous choke points here in hamptonroads, at one point everything major was a toll actually we still have a few existing ones still in operation. This was mainly because they did not think (we have crappy leaders in our area) we would swell to what we are today. We have 5 bridge tunnels, a ridiculous amount of bridges and drawbridges, hell you basically are living on a island no matter where you are if your in Hamptonroads. Sucks if you can not drive anywhere without paying a toll, that means you can't let the "G" out without having to slow down every few miles, lol.
we're getting screwed here but no one wants to change it!
They way they have the toll road funding set up is as long as they still owe money on ANY toll road they collect on ALL toll roads. Yet somehow they never seem to get paid off!
What I was critical about you is that you agree with McCain and his claim that Obama is responsible for the high gas prices. Now with regards to your questions, I have a suggestion. Why don't we buy from Venezuela? It doesn't make sense to me that we still get most of our oil from Saudi Arabi, where 11 of the hijackers came from and they are allies, while Venezuela, which has only barked a lot but did nothing, still has plenty of oil at less than a $1 a gallon.
the average gallon of gas in venezuela is $.10
BTW, we don't buy gas from venezuela because their dictator/socialist/terrorist president is ANTI-AMERICAN.
