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rlipps · 12-08-2003, 04:20 PM

Actually, I am looking forward to LSU and Michigan wins, thus solidifying just how badly overrated the Big 12 and Pac 10 are.[

]

However, Michigan might not have enough to stop USC's high powered offense. But I would definitely bet on LSU because they have the defense to stop OU and a potent enough offense to put points on the board. LSU plays like Kansas, but does it better.

**Chaz** · 12-08-2003, 04:42 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rlipps

Actually, I am looking forward to LSU and Michigan wins, thus solidifying just how badly overrated the Big 12 and Pac 10 are.[

]

However, Michigan might not have enough to stop USC's high powered offence. But I would definitely bet on LSU because they have the defense to stop OU and a potent enough offense to put points on the board. LSU plays like Kansas, but does it better.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If LSU plays like Kansas then they are in for the biggest whoopin of the year!!! hehe I think you mean K-state...[

]

Also there is no way the Big 12 is an overrated conference. Big 12 is one of the hardest conferences in the nation!!! I will give you the pac-10 though, definately overrated...

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Semi On · 12-08-2003, 04:45 PM

While I'll certainly agree with you on the Big 12 being overrated, here are some sport agnostic stats regarding the Pac:

* Pac-10 members have 73 NCAA team titles over the past nine seasons, for an average of more than eight championships per academic year

* those 73 team titles over the past nine seasons have come in 21 different men's and women's sports

* led the nation in NCAA Championships 38 of the last 43 years and finished second five times.

* Pac-10 has captured 325 NCAA titles (243 men's, 82 women's), far outdistancing the runner-up Big Ten Conference's 193 titles

* In the 2002-03 NACDA Directors' Cup competition, four of the top 10, and seven of the top 20 Division I programs, were Pac-10 members: No. 1 STANFORD, No. 6 UCLA, No. 9 CALIFORNIA, No. 10 ARIZONA STATE, No. 13 USC, No. 16 ARIZONA and No. 17 WASHINGTON.

* The Pac-10 captured eight NCAA titles in 2002-03, most of any conference. The Pac-10 total of eight edged out the Southeastern Conference, which was runnerup with seven NCAA crowns. No other conference earned more than three NCAA championships.

* The Pac-10 had the most NCAA titles of any conference in women's sports with five, and tied with the SEC for most in men's sports with three.

* Overall 2002-03, the Conference had 23 teams finish in the top three at NCAA Championship events.

* Of the 22 sports sponsored by the Pac-10, 19 witnessed at least half its teams participating in the postseason

* men sent 64 of a possible 87 teams into the postseason (73.6 percent), while the women sent 78 of a possible 99 teams into NCAA Tournament action (78.8 percent).

* The Pac-10 experienced continued success in football as the league sent seven teams to bowl games.

* Overall, the Conference posted a stellar 32-15 (.681) record versus non-conference foes in 2002.

* it sent five teams into the Men's NCAA Tournament where Arizona advanced to the Elite Eight

* The Conference continued its dominance in softball as all eight teams made it to the NCAA Regional Tournament for the third time, marking the fifth consecutive season the Pac-10 has sent at least seven teams to regionals

* Arizona, California, UCLA and Washington made it to the Women's College World Series where the defending NCAA champion Golden Bears and Bruins battled for the national title, the 10th time Conference teams have faced each other in the championship game, and the 20th time in 22 years the Pac-10 has sent at least one team to the title game.

* During the season, the Conference also added to its golf history as USC garnered the women's title.

* Women's volleyball was another showcase of Pac-10 talent, as a record eight teams were selected for the NCAA Tournament.

* On the men's side, Pac-10 members have won 243 NCAA Team Championships, far ahead of the the 184 claimed by the runner-up Big Ten.

* Men's NCAA crowns have come at a phenomenal rate for the Pac-10 - 15 basketball titles by five schools (more than any other conference), 48 tennis titles, 45 outdoor track and field crowns, and 24 baseball titles.

* Pac-10 members have won 23 of the last 34 NCAA titles in volleyball, 29 of the last 44 in water polo, and 20 total swimming and diving national championships.

* Individually, the Conference has produced an impressive number of NCAA men's individual champions as well, claiming 1071 NCAA individual crowns.

* Since the NCAA began conducting women's championships 22 years ago, Pac-10 members have claimed at least four national titles in a single season on 14 occasions.

* Overall, the Pac-10 has captured 82 NCAA women's crowns, easily outdistancing the Southeastern Conference, which is second with 58.

* Women's Pac-10 members have dominated a number of sports, winning 16 softball titles, 14 tennis crowns, eight of the last 13 volleyball titles, ten of the last 14 trophies in golf and eight of the last 15 in swimming and diving.

* Pac-10 women athletes shine nationally on an individual basis as well, capturing an unmatched 412 NCAA individual titles, an average of nearly 19 champions per season.

There's no division in college sports that can claim anything close to the depth of the PAC. They dominate all but two sports, and are heavily present in those two (Basketball and Football). If anything, they're the single most underrated organization in the history of anything.

Regards,
Josh

**Chaz** · 12-08-2003, 05:05 PM

Semi we are talking about College Football here, not every NCAA sport at all schools. BUT if you want to talk about schools much less conferences then Texas takes the cake. Greatest athletic school across the board in all NCAA sports my friend...hehe!

Oh and how can you guys say the Big 12 is overrated? 3 teams in the top 10 and 5 in the top 25...with usually a few more! I would hardly say they are overrated! We will see how the big 12 teams do...PAC-10 in football is definately overrated conference for sure though! What do they have...two teams in the top 25...yet they are a good conference? Give me a break...USC's schedule is a joke!

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Semi On · 12-08-2003, 05:45 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Semi we are talking about College Football here, not every NCAA sport at all schools. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He wasn't specific.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">BUT if you want to talk about schools much less conferences then Texas takes the cake. Greatest athletic school across the board in all NCAA sports my friend...hehe!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I can't say that I see their name all that often outside of the primary sports. Any stats to back that claim?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Oh and how can you guys say the Big 12 is overrated? 3 teams in the top 10 and 5 in the top 25...with usually a few more! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hence the term overrated. They shouldn't have such well ranking teams so often in my opinion. I'm a firm believer that the Big 12 gets ranking it shouldn't based on the nature of where the major sports media outlets are located and from whence its various employees graduated.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We will see how the big 12 teams do...PAC-10 in football is definately overrated conference for sure though!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm not sure how that's possible since the Pac gets absolutely fuck all for respect in football. All I ever hear about is the Big 12 and I live on the west coast. This year was a weak showing, to be sure, but the division is typically quite fierce, chewing itself apart. Teams that blow away non-Pac teams lose randomly throughout the season to other Pac teams. Anyone can win here with at least 8 good programs, if not top 25, each year. Compare that with the rest of the NCAA where most divisions carry 2 dominant schools and a bunch of Hellen Keller's School for the Deaf and Blind type schools.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What do they have...two teams in the top 25...yet they are a good conference?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're speaking in terms of an entire division's legacy and backing it with a single year. Does that really make sense to you?

Regards,
Semi

rlipps · 12-08-2003, 07:56 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Semi we are talking about College Football here, not every NCAA sport at all schools. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

He wasn't specific.

<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Haha, Semi, YOU of all people would know that I was referring to NCAA Football and could give two shits about how PAC-10 outdistanced themselves from SEC's NCAA Titles with a women's sports title.[

]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> <blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Oh and how can you guys say the Big 12 is overrated? 3 teams in the top 10 and 5 in the top 25...with usually a few more! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hence the term overrated. They shouldn't have such well ranking teams so often in my opinion. I'm a firm believer that the Big 12 gets ranking it shouldn't based on the nature of where the major sports media outlets are located and from whence its various employees graduated.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
My point exactly.[bowdown]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">We will see how the big 12 teams do...PAC-10 in football is definately overrated conference for sure though!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm not sure how that's possible since the Pac gets absolutely fuck all for respect in football. All I ever hear about is the Big 12 and I live on the west coast. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
I feel your pain Semi. The Big 12 is definitely the more overrated of the two.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">This year was a weak showing, to be sure, but the division is typically quite fierce, chewing itself apart. Teams that blow away non-Pac teams lose randomly throughout the season to other Pac teams. Anyone can win here with at least 8 good programs, if not top 25, each year. Compare that with the rest of the NCAA where most divisions carry 2 dominant schools and a bunch of Hellen Keller's School for the Deaf and Blind type schools.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
You cannot possibly say that about the SEC. The SEC (East and West combined) always has at least 8-10 teams that are very good out of conference but bring each other down in the polls because they are close competition for each other. That is the biggest problem for SEC schools, they are all pretty damn strong football programs so the detract from the greatness of each other through fierce rivalries. There is no doubt in my mind that you could take the 8 best schools from the SEC and play them in a bracket style tournament against the best 8 schools from any other conference, and at least 3 of the 4 teams in the semi-finals would be SEC. As long as you matched up SEC vs. Conference X in the first round matches.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">What do they have...two teams in the top 25...yet they are a good conference?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You're speaking in terms of an entire division's legacy and backing it with a single year. Does that really make sense to you?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Although I was inferring that their legacies are somewhat overrated as well, I mostly meant over the past few years. I really couldn't give a damn about any teams that are older than 10 years ago. That makes for a very trivial argument on greatness. I mean, look at the "great" Notre Dame, they suck ass as of late. They were great, but not anymore. Also, the SEC is a rather young conference compared to the others, so that is more reason for me not to care about the USC team of 1956 or whatever else somebody wants to bring up from recent antiquity.[

]

rlipps · 12-08-2003, 08:03 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chaz

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rlipps

Actually, I am looking forward to LSU and Michigan wins, thus solidifying just how badly overrated the Big 12 and Pac 10 are.[

]

However, Michigan might not have enough to stop USC's high powered offence. But I would definitely bet on LSU because they have the defense to stop OU and a potent enough offense to put points on the board. LSU plays like Kansas, but does it better.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

If LSU plays like Kansas then they are in for the biggest whoopin of the year!!! hehe I think you mean K-state...[

]<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

[boxing]

You know what I meant.[dunce]

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Oh and how can you guys say the Big 12 is overrated? 3 teams in the top 10 and 5 in the top 25...with usually a few more! I would hardly say they are overrated! We will see how the big 12 teams do...PAC-10 in football is definately overrated conference for sure though! What do they have...two teams in the top 25...yet they are a good conference? Give me a break...USC's schedule is a joke!
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Interesting, the SEC had 4 teams in the Top 15 and 5 in the Top 20.[:O]

Just thought I would stir the pot a bit.[lol]

**Chaz** · 12-09-2003, 08:22 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUT if you want to talk about schools much less conferences then Texas takes the cake. Greatest athletic school across the board in all NCAA sports my friend...hehe!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I can't say that I see their name all that often outside of the primary sports. Any stats to back that claim?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Sports Illustrated did this ranking earlier this year and Stanford and UT came out on top with UT taking the cake. I will see if I can still find that issue and post the link for you.

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**Chaz** · 12-09-2003, 08:29 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Interesting, the SEC had 4 teams in the Top 15 and 5 in the Top 20.[:O]

Just thought I would stir the pot a bit.[lol]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Uhh I am talking about the final AP rankings, not throughout the year rlipps!!! Currently according to the AP poll the SEC only has 3 teams in the top 15 and 5 in the top 25...[

]

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Semi On · 12-09-2003, 11:28 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">You cannot possibly say that about the SEC. The SEC (East and West combined) always has at least 8-10 teams that are very good out of conference but bring each other down in the polls because they are close competition for each other. That is the biggest problem for SEC schools, they are all pretty damn strong football programs so the detract from the greatness of each other through fierce rivalries. There is no doubt in my mind that you could take the 8 best schools from the SEC and play them in a bracket style tournament against the best 8 schools from any other conference, and at least 3 of the 4 teams in the semi-finals would be SEC. As long as you matched up SEC vs. Conference X in the first round matches.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Hence my use of "most" and not "all".

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Although I was inferring that their legacies are somewhat overrated as well, I mostly meant over the past few years. I really couldn't give a damn about any teams that are older than 10 years ago. That makes for a very trivial argument on greatness. I mean, look at the "great" Notre Dame, they suck ass as of late. They were great, but not anymore. Also, the SEC is a rather young conference compared to the others, so that is more reason for me not to care about the USC team of 1956 or whatever else somebody wants to bring up from recent antiquity.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Then how's this for you? Despite what you believe to be a poor showing from the Pac in recent years, which division do you suppose has the most athletes in the NFL?

If the ultimate point of NCAA Football is a free feeder program for the NFL, that stat speaks pretty well.

**Chaz** · 12-09-2003, 01:18 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On

Then how's this for you? Despite what you believe to be a poor showing from the Pac in recent years, which division do you suppose has the most athletes in the NFL?

If the ultimate point of NCAA Football is a free feeder program for the NFL, that stat speaks pretty well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I actually don't see what that point proves...if anything really??? Just because the Pac-10 may have more players in the NFL but they can not produce a single team in the national championship game much less national champion in the past what 5...6 years at least? The conference as a whole has been weak in recent years and I don't see any facts you have proven that show otherwise.

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Semi On · 12-09-2003, 03:39 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Just because the Pac-10 may have more players in the NFL but they can not produce a single team in the national championship game much less national champion in the past what 5...6 years at least?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Lot's of superior athletes with better training from better coaches -> lot's of teams that can win -> teams beat each other randomly in unexpected configurations (USC v. Cal) -> Poor records compared to teams in divisions with one or two dominant programs that beat the crap out of Bob's College West Central -> No Championship bowl game.

USC would have beaten OU, but because of the nature of the Pac, we won't see that game.

rlipps · 12-09-2003, 10:38 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chaz

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">

Interesting, the SEC had 4 teams in the Top 15 and 5 in the Top 20.[:O]

Just thought I would stir the pot a bit.[lol]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Uhh I am talking about the final AP rankings, not throughout the year rlipps!!! Currently according to the AP poll the SEC only has 3 teams in the top 15 and 5 in the top 25...[

]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, I was referring to the most recent BCS Rankings. The SEC has had many more teams than that in the Top 15 and Top 25 throughout the season. I was just bringing up the current stats.

rlipps · 12-09-2003, 10:42 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On

Then how's this for you? Despite what you believe to be a poor showing from the Pac in recent years, which division do you suppose has the most athletes in the NFL?

If the ultimate point of NCAA Football is a free feeder program for the NFL, that stat speaks pretty well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, I have no clue which division has the most athletes in the NFL. From recent years, past 6-8, I have noticed a lot of the football players played for schools like: Miami, FSU, LSU, Arkansas, Tennessee, and UF. I would actually be very interested to see some stats of what conference has sent the most kids to the NFL over the past 5-10 years, I think it would be interesting to say the least.

**Chaz** · 12-10-2003, 08:18 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by rlipps

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On

Then how's this for you? Despite what you believe to be a poor showing from the Pac in recent years, which division do you suppose has the most athletes in the NFL?

If the ultimate point of NCAA Football is a free feeder program for the NFL, that stat speaks pretty well.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Actually, I have no clue which division has the most athletes in the NFL. From recent years, past 6-8, I have noticed a lot of the football players played for schools like: Miami, FSU, LSU, Arkansas, Tennessee, and UF. I would actually be very interested to see some stats of what conference has sent the most kids to the NFL over the past 5-10 years, I think it would be interesting to say the least.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

That would be interesting to see, Semi care to post on where you got those facts from as far as what conference has sent more players into the NFL the past decade...???

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