I actually disagree with that sentiment redg. Politics isn't some mysterious monster that nobody can understand and control. I see it as a simple matter of right and wrong. Whether you're involved in politics or a volunteer as a cross walk monitor, right and wrong apply. I think politicians get away with murder, literally, because people tend to think politics is something it isn't. It is understandable and if people were willing can be changed. Of course, it won't be easy because you have those who have taken control of it, but doable none the less.
I personally think that once we as Americans change our attitude and views on politics things will begin to change. Once the mind set and attitudes change then people will begin to understand that they "can" bring about change and that it it's some weird "thing" nobody can control.
Politics = a systematic process
If the ^ is true, then it can "definitely" be changed. My 2 cents.
__________________ Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
i wonder if i just copy and paste from the other 9/11 thread . . .
naaah, i'll be original.
so we're in this war, chest deep, with no way out. we've been lied to about the circumstances about this war.
- and if you don't think we haven't been lied to, stop watching fox news and get out of from under that rock you live in -
i say we cut our losses and get out of there. i also say we should impeach Cheney for lying to us publicly and commercial imperialism. i wish we could publicly flog him, but we're a supposed civilized country.
this war had nothing to do with 9/11. it had nothing to do with Weapons of Mass Destruction. there is no victory in Iraq. not with the current troops that we have there, not with 500,000 troops which was originally recommended by army generals before the invasion began and was ignored by Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld. the Hawks, Bush, Cheney, the whole crop of them entirely underestimated what to do in Iraq, had no idea of who we would be fighting in Iraq, and have botched this thing since day 1.
some may say that this is exactly what happened during the Vietnam war. i say you're wrong, it's much much worse. the corruption goes deeper because of Iraq's oil supply which has the 2nd highest reserve of natural oil. only second to Saudi Arabia.
this congressional controlled military industrialization will bring this country down. there are profits to be made, bids to be completed, spending to be done so that the defense budget booms. if there is a war, we'll fight it with the best available technology out there, and perhaps some of the worst intelligence out there.
in the Fog of War, a documentary focusing on Robert McNamara, defense secretary under Kennedy and LBJ, a few lessons he stressed is to, one in particular was to know your enemy. show empathy towards your enemy. Vietnam was a Civil war. I t had nothing to do with communism, it was about Vietnam gaining its independence by whatever means necessary and we couldn't understand it. see 11 lessons from Robert McNamara The Fog of War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia in the war in Iraq, what are we fighting? who are we fighting? terrorists? or sunnis who don't want us there and for good reason.
our soldiers are going to die in vain out there in Iraq. they are not dying for "Freedom", they are dying for the dollar. and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians are going down with them too.
remember, dissension is good. this is a democracy and we have to question it all. question why are we fighting the Iraq war? why are we there? and who gains anything?
that a politician will represent what he/she believes is right for his benefit and/or the benefit of those around him..... which in some cases could be most of the population but will never ever be all of the population
^^^ Very good points gamma and I agree with all of them.
We are living in a time where our leaders and our nation is lost. There are those who want to withdraw from Iraq, but have no idea how to do it. There are those who want to end the war in Iraq but don't know where they'll make their next billion if we do so. There are those who want to win the war in Iraq, but don't know the reason why they want to and, further, won't know what to do once it's won. Saddest part of all... there are those who've lost husbands, wives, sons, daughters, brothers, sisters and life long friends, but don't know why.
We live in a world where the quality of life is exponentially better that of 50 years ago, but I think we've basically sold our souls for a better dish washer.
__________________ Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
Last edited by Zoomzoomers : 09-12-2007 at 02:43 PM.
that a politician will represent what he/she believes is right for his benefit and/or the benefit of those around him..... which in some cases could be most of the population but will never ever be all of the population
here's where i become the American patriot.
it is possible to get your representatives to hear you. it is possible to get your president to hear you. it is possible to change things when they aren't going your way? don't believe me?
it can be done. it can all be done. these were all accomplished by people like you and me. not smarter than you, not richer than you, but they had "ganas." they had balls, and will, and they were determined. all it takes is enough people to give a shit to do something about it. people have to get up off their asses and vote, write to their representative. meet him, knock on his door, fax him. they need to exercise their rights to free speech, to meet in groups, to petition, etc. etc.
we've gone complacent man. you think that the Rep does what he wants, just because he wants to? because hes' king? no! he does it so he can get re-elected! that's the way it works. he's there in power and he wants to stay that way and if his constituents don't like something, and the great majority tell him to do something, he'll do something.
but the squeaky door gets the oil. or better yet, use this quote, one of my favorites: "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." Frederick Douglass
if you want something in this government, go get it. don't fear it, mobilize and go get it.
Here is a copy of a letter my friend Chris sent to the AZ Republic:
Dear Editors,
After reading your "Listen to Petraeus" editorial this morning I am so disappointed in your analysis I had to respond. Did you not read the recent GAO and NIE reports that contradict the conclusions of the White House/Petraeus reports? Why did the editorial board ignore General Petraeus' history of overly optimistic statements and conclusions concerning the fiasco in Iraq? How about the fact that he was in charge of developing the corrupt and ineffective Iraqi military and was responsible for the loss of over 100,000 AK-47's. You conveniently overlooked those facts as well.
Then the wise minds of the editorial board clutched their pearls and criticized Moveon.org for the skepticism that the editorial board should express. Can't you see that you guys are projecting your own failures as journalist on to Moveon? Positive realities on the ground? Please stop with the Republican propaganda. Is this mistake really worth the Trillions of dollars we are spending? We have bridges collapsing, a healthcare crisis, rising debt and still the editorial board cheerleads for continuous war. All because some criminals hijacked some planes and ran them into buildings. The Arizona Republic editorial board must bear some responsibility for its unwillingness to do the hard work of a real journalist and its eagerness to accept at face value the lies and distortions of our government.
Sincerely,
Charles Christopher Lowery
it is possible to get your representatives to hear you. it is possible to get your president to hear you. it is possible to change things when they aren't going your way? don't believe me?
it can be done. it can all be done. these were all accomplished by people like you and me. not smarter than you, not richer than you, but they had "ganas." they had balls, and will, and they were determined. all it takes is enough people to give a shit to do something about it. people have to get up off their asses and vote, write to their representative. meet him, knock on his door, fax him. they need to exercise their rights to free speech, to meet in groups, to petition, etc. etc.
we've gone complacent man. you think that the Rep does what he wants, just because he wants to? because hes' king? no! he does it so he can get re-elected! that's the way it works. he's there in power and he wants to stay that way and if his constituents don't like something, and the great majority tell him to do something, he'll do something.
but the squeaky door gets the oil. or better yet, use this quote, one of my favorites: "Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will." Frederick Douglass
if you want something in this government, go get it. don't fear it, mobilize and go get it.
those are great examples.... millions of people fighting for an idea thats great and that is what USA its all about
NO DOUBT
but i am still maintining my statement that politics is full of negative stuff... such as envy and corruption...
^^^ a trillion (points and...) dollars the war has cost us so far (that we know about) good points from both of you, my buddy Chris' letter just touches the topic (he got his degree in Poli Sci), but I think it's a good letter. The AZ Republic is SO conservative and biased in their journalism, it had to be written....
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Politics of 9-11
