abortion will never be banned also b/c its also like a type of populatio control. plus banning it would go against what america stands for. freedom of choice
Soudns like a justification to me. you say it will not be banned BECAUSE its a population control.
you are missing my point. stop trying to twist me point please
But all things that result in a person's death aid in population control. War, famine, disease, floods and so on. I know what you are saying, abortions help prevent unwanted babies and that could really be a blessing to the child. For in some cases, it is better to never be born than to live a horrible life.
But on a side note, some abortions could lead to over population. Take Hitler for example, think if his mother aborted him how many people would be living today.
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its not a justification. and thats not why i said it. what i did say was whether you realize it or not rather like it or not. it does function has a type of un-intenional population control.
i said it very clear
I think it is more of people using it as their form of birth control because they were to lazy to get the pill or some condoms that they hand out for free at the clinic. You can get the pill or condoms when you are underage at the clinics too so that is not an excuse. Just people wanting an out. But that far into it 4+ months? That is a baby that the woman felt move and could possibly live with help on the outside in a nicu. There is no way in hell that should be considered anyting but murder.
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Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns all clean ~ Maya Angelou
I think it is more of people using it as their form of birth control because they were to lazy to get the pill or some condoms that they hand out for free at the clinic. You can get the pill or condoms when you are underage at the clinics too so that is not an excuse. Just people wanting an out. But that far into it 4+ months? That is a baby that the woman felt move and could possibly live with help on the outside in a nicu. There is no way in hell that should be considered anyting but murder.
right well im not for that. thats just nasty and it shows the detachment a person has with her body i fshe frequently go have abortions b/c she's too nasty to have men strap up. im not defending that by anymeans.
im talking about individual that do using protection and end up getting preg somehow.
in no way would i ever back someone going and having multiple abortions just b/c she's a nasty whore.
but what you fail to understand. over 90% of the time at the 4month mark its not a baby. its still a fetus. hence why its called a fetus and not baby.
babies have been known to be born premature and still live at 5 months i have never heard anything sooner than that. you cant distort the lines whens its a fetus or viable baby. thats the whole problem with the arguement.
advocates for abortion bans give misinformation by not telling the truth about when a fetus is no longer a fetus. like i said. alot of people that want to ban abortion see using the morning after pill as murder even and thats just plain stupid.
again. if we were 1.3 mil babies a year deeper times 20 years for instance. we would have a problem. again look at the poverty we have in this country already and the amount of people who dont take the time to raise their kids right.
But all things that result in a person's death aid in population control. War, famine, disease, floods and so on. I know what you are saying, abortions help prevent unwanted babies and that could really be a blessing to the child. For in some cases, it is better to never be born than to live a horrible life.
But on a side note, some abortions could lead to over population. Take Hitler for example, think if his mother aborted him how many people would be living today.
yeah but everything happens for a reason. God could have put hitler here for a reason. im black and i hate that slarvery happen to us and we still face discrimination but guess what. I am gald it happened at the same time b/c i wouldnt be here in America and with that being said. they America as we know today wouldnt exist if it wasnt for blacks unwillingly being brought over here. eventhough we were treat and sometimes still looked at as animals.
so things in life happen as a reason. think its possibly things could have been worst off if hitler didnt happen.
just like i cold speak of the genocide in Africa. i hate my people are killing each other but everything happens for a reason. plagues and all. Population control
right well im not for that. thats just nasty and it shows the detachment a person has with her body i fshe frequently go have abortions b/c she's too nasty to have men strap up. im not defending that by anymeans.
im talking about individual that do using protection and end up getting preg somehow.
in no way would i ever back someone going and having multiple abortions just b/c she's a nasty whore.
but what you fail to understand. over 90% of the time at the 4month mark its not a baby. its still a fetus. hence why its called a fetus and not baby.
babies have been known to be born premature and still live at 5 months i have never heard anything sooner than that. you cant distort the lines whens its a fetus or viable baby. thats the whole problem with the arguement.
advocates for abortion bans give misinformation by not telling the truth about when a fetus is no longer a fetus. like i said. alot of people that want to ban abortion see using the morning after pill as murder even and thats just plain stupid.
again. if we were 1.3 mil babies a year deeper times 20 years for instance. we would have a problem. again look at the poverty we have in this country already and the amount of people who dont take the time to raise their kids right.
Whil eI understand what you are saying I do not agree. My beliefs are that it is a baby as soon as the egg is fertilized. When someone has a miscarriage they say they lost the baby. It does not matter at what point the miscarry it could be at 7 weeks. They still say they lost the baby. But someone that wants to kill it will say it is a fetus. The arguement of what you call it depends on your stance on this issue. I went with a friend to get an ultrasound when she was just 11 weeks pregnant and you can see that it is not just a littel blob. You can see it is a baby.
Click this link and then click on face, arms, whatever and tell me it's not a baby. Pregnancy Week 12 Ultrasound Photos
1.3 million abortions a year is way too many. The problem lies with people not protecting themselves properly. Kids are afraid to tell their parents so they don't use the pill and a condom. Condoms break. Everyone knows that. That is why you should always use more than one form of protection. THere is no way in hell that with a 90 whatever% proper working of condoms and 97% on the pill that there should be 1.3 million abortions in a year. That is just simply disgusting, and tells me that people aren't using protection. The number would be way less if they were.
Now most of those 1.3 million do happen before the 3-4 month mark. I think within that period of time you should know you are pregnant. But those women that wait and then have these barbaric partial birth abortions that is murder. I am glad that the doctors will be sentenced to up to 2 years and I believe the women should be as well. I don't think it is completely the doctor's fault. There is this thing called adoption. There are tons of people that want children and can not have them that would be glad to take these babies rather than have them end up in a garbage can with sucked out brains and a smashed skull.
All that aside we live in America where we are all free to have our own opinions, and have the right to be either pro life or pro choice. I for one am Pro-Life for myself but Pro-Choice for other women. But never in the case of Partial birth abortions. That to me is just didgusting.
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Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns all clean ~ Maya Angelou
Whil eI understand what you are saying I do not agree. My beliefs are that it is a baby as soon as the egg is fertilized. When someone has a miscarriage they say they lost the baby. It does not matter at what point the miscarry it could be at 7 weeks. They still say they lost the baby. But someone that wants to kill it will say it is a fetus. The arguement of what you call it depends on your stance on this issue. I went with a friend to get an ultrasound when she was just 11 weeks pregnant and you can see that it is not just a littel blob. You can see it is a baby.
Click this link and then click on face, arms, whatever and tell me it's not a baby. Pregnancy Week 12 Ultrasound Photos
1.3 million abortions a year is way too many. The problem lies with people not protecting themselves properly. Kids are afraid to tell their parents so they don't use the pill and a condom. Condoms break. Everyone knows that. That is why you should always use more than one form of protection. THere is no way in hell that with a 90 whatever% proper working of condoms and 97% on the pill that there should be 1.3 million abortions in a year. That is just simply disgusting, and tells me that people aren't using protection. The number would be way less if they were.
Now most of those 1.3 million do happen before the 3-4 month mark. I think within that period of time you should know you are pregnant. But those women that wait and then have these barbaric partial birth abortions that is murder. I am glad that the doctors will be sentenced to up to 2 years and I believe the women should be as well. I don't think it is completely the doctor's fault. There is this thing called adoption. There are tons of people that want children and can not have them that would be glad to take these babies rather than have them end up in a garbage can with sucked out brains and a smashed skull.
All that aside we live in America where we are all free to have our own opinions, and have the right to be either pro life or pro choice. I for one am Pro-Life for myself but Pro-Choice for other women. But never in the case of Partial birth abortions. That to me is just didgusting.
well i dont mean to tell you you are wrong. but you are. just like you mentioned its a fertilized egg not a baby. its not about beliefs. its about scientific facts. at the moment of conception or before the 4 month period there is no baby. it goes from a fertilized egg to a fetus then the fetus later develops into a baby. but they are not one in the same.
thats why there will never be ban b/c medicine has proven when abortion becomes murder. which at that point can be banned and im for without a doubt. but the people that want to outlaw abortion as a whole such as yourself not from facts or logic but coming purely from emotion and beliefs - thats not good enough reason to create a ban and why a ban will never happen(for abortion as a whole.)
anything up to 4 months is not a partial birth abortion you should do your research and get the facts.
and once again you are one of the people i said only looks at one side of the situation. you obviously fail to realize how the influx of beings would hurt the nation and impact the world negatively. look at the state our planet is in right now without the extra beings, imgaine if the fetuses were all here and include the rest of the world.
once again everything happens for a reason. a baby that isnt provided a good life is better off not being here and most of those babies, sorry fetuses wouldnt have the proper life if they were here. and thats where your belief becomes selfish. unless you want to raise them which i doubt. yall arent thinking about the well-being of the baby yall are thinking about yourselves.
thats why me and my girl felt it was best. we arent married, we dont know what the future hold for us, i grew up without my bio-father eventhough i didnt need it cause my stepfather came in to my life when i was in 7 grade which im greatful for but its always good to have a household with the mother and father. I want my babies to be raised and grow up with me and my wife. having the best possiblility of the tru family staying together.
i was taught by my mom not to live my life by mistake and im not going to. which others need to do also
when kids are brought into this world out of a mistake most dont get the best life to live as a result of it. that is truly unfair to them. look at the millions of ones here and their parents dont care about them or isnt raising them to be an asset to society. yet that is the other side of the situation that needs to be taken into account which isnt
thats why im pro-choice. a woman should have the the choice to do whatever with her own body
well i dont mean to tell you you are wrong. but you are. just like you mentioned its a fertilized egg not a baby. its not about beliefs. its about scientific facts. at the moment of conception or before the 4 month period there is no baby. it goes from a fertilized egg to a fetus then the fetus later develops into a baby. but they are not one in the same.
thats why there will never be ban b/c medicine has proven when abortion becomes murder. which at that point can be banned and im for without a doubt. but the people that want to outlaw abortion as a whole such as yourself not from facts or logic but coming purely from emotion and beliefs - thats not good enough reason to create a ban and why a ban will never happen(for abortion as a whole.)
anything up to 4 months is not a partial birth abortion you should do your research and get the facts.
and once again you are one of the people i said only looks at one side of the situation. you obviously fail to realize how the influx of beings would hurt the nation and impact the world negatively. look at the state our planet is in right now without the extra beings, imgaine if the fetuses were all here and include the rest of the world.
once again everything happens for a reason. a baby that isnt provided a good life is better off not being here and most of those babies, sorry fetuses wouldnt have the proper life if they were here. and thats where your belief becomes selfish. unless you want to raise them which i doubt. yall arent thinking about the well-being of the baby yall are thinking about yourselves.
thats why me and my girl felt it was best. we arent married, we dont know what the future hold for us, i grew up without my bio-father eventhough i didnt need it cause my stepfather came in to my life when i was in 7 grade which im greatful for but its always good to have a household with the mother and father. I want my babies to be raised and grow up with me and my wife. having the best possiblility of the tru family staying together.
i was taught by my mom not to live my life by mistake and im not going to. which others need to do also
when kids are brought into this world out of a mistake and dont get the best life to live as a result of it. that truly unfair to them long at the millions of ones here. yet that is the other side of the situation that needs to be taken into account which isnt
thats why im pro-choice. a woman should have the the choice to do whatever with her own body
You seriously need to go re-read what I worte you have misquoted and called me out on things that I never said. You say people like me want to ban abortion completly? Who the hell said that? I said clearly 2 posts back that I am pro life for myself. I also said clearly that I am PROCHOICE FOR OTHER WOMEN. SO before you call me out on anything you need to read properly. You are emotionally reading and taking what you want out of my posts. That's not right. Please if you want to debate with me quote me correctly or don't bother resonding to my posts. You sit and attack personally talking about I am wrong this and that. I never said anything about you personally I could but that is not what I started this thread about.
I have clearly said on anumerous occasions in this thread that I believe the partial birth abortions should be illegal. I never said anything about banning normal abortions. But smash the skull baby half hanging out is wrong. That was my entire point for this thread.
GO re-read everything I wrote and see how wrong you are about me. Otherwise be done with answering me. There is no need.
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Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns all clean ~ Maya Angelou
You seriously need to go re-read what I worte you have misquoted and called me out on things that I never said. You say people like me want to ban abortion completly? Who the hell said that? I said clearly 2 posts back that I am pro life for myself. I also said clearly that I am PROCHOICE FOR OTHER WOMEN. SO before you call me out on anything you need to read properly. You are emotionally reading and taking what you want out of my posts. That's not right. Please if you want to debate with me quote me correctly or don't bother resonding to my posts. You sit and attack personally talking about I am wrong this and that. I never said anything about you personally I could but that is not what I started this thread about.
I have clearly said on anumerous occasions in this thread that I believe the partial birth abortions should be illegal. I never said anything about banning normal abortions. But smash the skull baby half hanging out is wrong. That was my entire point for this thread.
GO re-read everything I wrote and see how wrong you are about me. Otherwise be done with answering me. There is no need.
when i said "people like you" i wasnt refering to you wanting to ban abortion as a whole.
i said "people like you" as in the people that base this arguement off of beliefs and their feelings instead of facts and logic also are the ones that want to ban abortion as whole. but i could have worded it as "most of people who base this of their beliefs also wants it banned as a whole" but i wasnt saying ALL
but i wasnt including you in that. im sorry if you misinterpreted my words i could have defined the line alittle better in a way putting your outside of that box of "banning abortion as a whole" making it alittle more obvious than i did.
You know i hear, "think about abortion scientifically and with logic." What does that really mean? Lets examine humans scientifically then? We are nothing more than a mass of differentiated cells that are assigned during the first weeks of pregnancy and later mature. Our heart is simply a ball of muscular tissue that is pumped by an electrically charged node that is balanced by gated ion channels. Our brains is nothing more than a lump of tissue that sends electrical signals to the rest of our bodies via cells in a network. This is us scientifically in a nutshell. What would be the big deal if another mass of cells (someone else) destroy my mass of cells ( me)? To me if everything is explained scientifically, then there just isnt any point in it. There is no purpose for humans. The very core of life scientifically speaking is to pass on ones genetic code, which is just a bunch of nucleic acid sequences. Essentially all we are is a bunch of molecules bonded one way or another. All that i have described just sounds so cold and without purpose. Thats why i believe that there has to be something else. Thats why i share the same viewpoint as ggirl as far as conception. I believe we, as a human race have to define what living really is based on our beliefs with support from science, not just entirely based on science. At least thats how I see it.
Last edited by Simpsonsrules86 : 04-24-2007 at 03:41 AM.
the only reason why i brought it up from the scientific side of things was only for when abortion becomes murder. i didnt say that thinking from feelings and beliefs was wrong. but it is when thats the only basis.
logic and facts has to be 50% of that thought process. b/cof the fact that you have to think about what type of life that kid may have. and the reason why its dangerous to think that even a fertilized eggs being aborted by a morning after pill is messed up is b/c its only based of your feelings. you arent thinking about the well-being of the child and thats when you beliefs become selfish.
so i ask you being that yall like to leave the thought process so cut and dry.
would you rather a fetus not be aborted and that child grows up into an household witha mother or father strung out on drugs, or the kid be born addicted to drugs b/c the mom used them while pregnant, a kid being raised into a family where the father beats the shit out of the kids, or rapes the kids, a kid brought into this world with a mother that neglects her motherly duties b/c all she cares about is doing whatever she can to keep a man in the house b/c she doesnt like to be alone, or the mother not knowing her boyfriend is raping her kid boy or girl, or she knows and is scared to something about it, a kid brought into this world and sees his/her mom get the shit beat out of her everyday, a kid that has alcoholic parents, or a kid that isnt nurtured correctly b/c the parents are more worried about themselves then the kid shoots up a school b/c society deemed him or her an outcast b/c they dont have the best social skills and builds up resentment against people, a kid born with AIDS, a kid born out of rape, or one night a girl was just having fun at a party and was irresponible and didnt use protection, the kid born into poverty, or even the moms that smoke their whole pregnacy-i have a friend and his mom smoked the whole time she was preg with him and he had so much nicotine in his system his teeth are a bronze color and got picked on b/c of it. of even kids in foster homes. i couldnt imagine being given to another family cause my mom didnt want me or couldnt take care of me.
about 50% of households in america arent fit for taking care of kids.
this is the other sid eof that coin, from the childs perspective yall never seem to think about. and having such a narrow and simple thought process in a situation that is way more complex than that is why yalls belief is so selfish.
its not about us, its about the well-being of that child
its not about beliefs and feelings its about beliefs, logic, feelings, facts and most importantly EDUCATION. people lack of education on this issue is why most feel what they do. when you think about this topic in depth and not just about yourself the answer isnt that cut and dry.
240ka, you make some solid comments. Life isn't fair, and that goes many many people. There are a lot of people that are parents, that shouldn't be one, and there are a lot of situations that are unfair to women. If you notice, I never made any comments about banning it. I don't have the right to make claims like that for everyone. I just stated my opinions on the topic and all the reasoning I stated is all what I would personally follow. The world is just too complicated to look at things from one perspective to solve anything, and that would be selfish.
The reason I gave that biology example wasn't to avoid the other side of the story. I wanted to give u the reason why I feel that a fetus is not just a parasitic host. I wanted to show that humans, biologically speaking aren't much without beliefs and emotion, not that you are not saying we are. I just wanted to give u my reasoning and logic. Thats it. I am not so ignorant not too see the perils that people must endure, so please do not call me selfish. Like said before, these are my own opinions on the topic and mine alone.
I realize that whatever I say, you will have your comments on. I guess the whole point of this discussion isnt to sway one another, because its evident that we all have our strong reservations on the topic, but just to share ideas and that cool. Discussion like these all always interesting.
Last edited by Simpsonsrules86 : 04-24-2007 at 01:42 PM.
240ka: would you rather a fetus not be aborted and that child grows up into an household witha mother or father strung out on drugs...
What about adoption?
still what do you thinkt the impact of that will have on the child-that may seem like a good option to you. but not them. no one want to be up-rooted from their home and mother no matter how bad the situation.
even though things at home are bad, thats what they are used to. and being put around total strangers no one likes.
i have friends that are adopted. while they are greatful for a better life and im speaking of the ones that got one only. they still wouldnt like, didnt like nor would want another child to have to go through it the whole process of switching fams.
again that child would be better of not being here. if they arent going to get the life they deserve they are better off not coming into a foce feed situation
