So.....racist or not

[jayelleseven]

Originally Posted by UTROD03

only if they're really paid. if they're not, their girls look terrible.

haha, guess u post in limited threads.. but umm yeah, they whole "personality" is so important thing is fucked up, every single woman on this planet is materialistic n superficial-- to a certain extent_


of course personality matters but its really only when the girl isnt into to u too much from the start_

[Neftali]

UTROD appears to be fiercely nationalistic & patiotic... probably can go into the realms of enthnocentrism... i guess i'm not, ok f*ck that, i'm not after all. This pretty much boils down to me not being impressed by anyone or anything... & i really don't care... i should care about the clumped up dirt i live on, for what?? my country, since when this became my country, i though it was our planet??!! i don't care if you agree w/ me, i don't care if you hate me, i pretty much could care less what your views are towards me, my race... whatever!! @ the end of the day, it doesn't matter... i know what is important to me, & another person's view isn't... if one cares that much, i suggest they find something in their life to focus on because they seem to be living an empty angry-angst riddled existence... i choose to focus on GOD!!

[GZire]

Originally Posted by jayelleseven

haha, guess u post in limited threads.. but umm yeah, they whole "personality" is so important thing is fucked up, every single woman on this planet is materialistic n superficial-- to a certain extent_


of course personality matters but its really only when the girl isnt into to u too much from the start_

It is the nesting instinct man. Who wants a male penguin if he doesn't have a nice rock nest?

[UTROD03]

GZIRE,

i didn't want to have everyone read your post plus mine combined, so i decided i'd start a new one.

my apologies for the negative characterization of your questions. my first reaction to them was that the answers are quite obvious. yes there's a double standard. so what. is this the first thing you've encountered in life that wasn't fair? do you really not grasp why the double standard exists with this? true, me walking up to a white guy and calling him a "cracker" is racist. i completely agree. here's why that same guy on stage or some random guy calling me a "nigger" is worse...

say what you want, but this country is run by rich, old, white guys. it always has been, and it will for the forseeable future. those guys hire me, fire me, promote me, make the laws i have to abide by, etc. how many places in america am "i", let alone minorities, in that powerful of a position in large numbers? NONE. therefore, unfortunately, the white man who calls a black man "nigger" carries more weight than a black man calling a white man a "cracker." the white guy, in general's, opinions and beliefs of certain stereotypes are of much more consequence in the overall makeup of society due to his position within it. think about it. when you use the phrase "The Man," what does "The Man" look like? i gaurantee you he's not black. regardless, i'm not afraid of the guy calling me a nigger to my face; it's the one who calls me that when i'm not around that worries me. he's the guy i have to watch out for. the fact that people can't understand that is beyond me. that's an argument for another day though, and this paragraph would require a lot of elaboration to fully explain my point.

your responses to the things i brought up completely prove my point. you even took the chappelle thing the exact opposite of the way i meant it...especially what i said at the end about the people i don't like. the part at the end about who i don't like was to get a reaction. it was sarcasm EXCEPT for what i said about my boy. i'm VERY angry about that.

in response to your post, my comments about chappelle were made to make the point that there's intelligence behind the word, for the most part, when he uses it versus the rediculous ignorance richards' use of it was accompanied by. it generally takes more than only listening to what you hear on the surface to understand the word's meaning when he uses it. orwell didn't write animal farm to tell a story about bunch of farm animals who talked, nor did chappelle do skits about how much he loved saying the word "nigger." i'm not trying to put orwell and chappelle on the same level by any means, but the relationship is still valid. the meaning of his work wasn't being understood correctly, he feared that, took issue with it, and he quit. some of that was his fault for believing that the general viewing public would be smart enough to understand him, but i believe most of it was his pride in who he is. he didn't sell out. he cared about his race and the consequences of his words too much to take the money.

as for some guy getting mad at my boy for saying, "nigga," i don't worry about it. my friends are smart enough not to walk in to a bar, see me, and say "what's up nigga?" in front of a bunch of black people. he'd be stupid. if one comes to my door, and they say that, it's completely different. i don't get mad. i shake his hand and show him in.

lastly, f damon. quit picking at inconsequential issues, and stick to the point. censorship is wrong. no one is arguing with you there. blatant, and explicit ignorance with no regard for its consequences is a totally different animal. remember the "yelling fire in a crowded theater" exception to our law in our country's history? richards yelled fire.

i've said this before, and i maintain my opinion that, when used in the right context, the word doesn't bother me. if that word is in a sentence, and it's preceeded or followed by one that refers to my ancestors and trees, it's on. no questions asked.

-1-

[uhohNumber2brb]

ehh UT and GZ, can I use your posts as my own for an essay i have to write????

[GZire]

UT sorry man, but it's too early in the morning to read your entire post. I'll try to answer as shortly as I can.

I know there is a double standard and why it exists. Personally I don't think there should be a double standard and I don't think banning of words/vocabulary goes with what our country stands for.

I think that if you don't like what someone has to say that's fine, but they should be given the opportunity to say it.

The point of this thread was to expose the double standard that exists in our country and to provoke thought on how absurd it is.

[ggirl]

In my opinion all that matters is the intent. Is the person saying it to hurt someone or not? If they aren't using in a malicious way I don't think it is racist.

[UTROD03]

Originally Posted by GZire

UT sorry man, but it's too early in the morning to read your entire post. I'll try to answer as shortly as I can.

I know there is a double standard and why it exists. Personally I don't think there should be a double standard and I don't think banning of words/vocabulary goes with what our country stands for.

I think that if you don't like what someone has to say that's fine, but they should be given the opportunity to say it.

The point of this thread was to expose the double standard that exists in our country and to provoke thought on how absurd it is.

there's a double standard 'cause there needs to be a double standard. most people's minds aren't strong enough to grasp what equality and "colorblindness" actually are, so there has to be a double standard. why do you think affirmative action was created? even the most racist of people should have understood the flaws in their logic, but their minds and hearts weren't, and regardless of what anyone says, still aren't in tune with the fact that i have no more or no less ability than my white counterparts. i bleed red, and i'm an american too. i feel all of the same feelings anyone else does. plain and simple, i'm a human. i deserve to be treated as such.

in a perfect world, there would be no need for civil rights laws, affirmative action programs, and "double standards" when it comes to our syntax. please remember that this "double standard" should and does exist with every other racially-affiliated word or phrase. i wouldn't call a mexican a term like that, nor would i call anyone of any other ancestry something to that effect. it's disrecpetcful, inconsiderate, and moronic. i, however, through all of the crap i and the people with my skin color have had to deal with before me, have more than earned the pass necessary to say that word whenever and where ever i want to.

-1-

[GZire]

Originally Posted by UTROD03

there's a double standard 'cause there needs to be a double standard. most people's minds aren't strong enough to grasp what equality and "colorblindness" actually are, so there has to be a double standard. why do you think affirmative action was created? even the most racist of people should have understood the flaws in their logic, but their minds and hearts weren't, and regardless of what anyone says, still aren't in tune with the fact that i have no more or no less ability than my white counterparts. i bleed red, and i'm an american too. i feel all of the same feelings anyone else does. plain and simple, i'm a human. i deserve to be treated as such.

in a perfect world, there would be no need for civil rights laws, affirmative action programs, and "double standards" when it comes to our syntax. please remember that this "double standard" should and does exist with every other racially-affiliated word or phrase. i wouldn't call a mexican a term like that, nor would i call anyone of any other ancestry something to that effect. it's disrecpetcful, inconsiderate, and moronic. i, however, through all of the crap i and the people with my skin color have had to deal with before me, have more than earned the pass necessary to say that word whenever and where ever i want to.

-1-

Affirmative action sucks. It is an excuse for people who don't want to work hard enough to get where they are. While most are partying in college I cracked my ass, so I have little to no sympathy for those who say that it's "unfair."

[GZire]

Originally Posted by ggirl

In my opinion all that matters is the intent. Is the person saying it to hurt someone or not? If they aren't using in a malicious way I don't think it is racist.

Good definition. I agree with it. I just hope everyone realizes that racist or not, they still have the right to express their views. If not then you are free to run them off the bridge like the Blues Brothers did to those Nazis.

[UTROD03]

Originally Posted by GZire

Good definition. I agree with it. I just hope everyone realizes that racist or not, they still have the right to express their views. If not then you are free to run them off the bridge like the Blues Brothers did to those Nazis.

sure they have the right to express them, but that right doesn't come with protection from the consequences of one's ignorant tongue.

[UTROD03]

Originally Posted by GZire

Affirmative action sucks. It is an excuse for people who don't want to work hard enough to get where they are. While most are partying in college I cracked my ass, so I have little to no sympathy for those who say that it's "unfair."

when the day comes that my race, sex, country of origin, etc, is of absolutely NO consequence, affirmative action will no longer be necessary. until the good 'ol boy network has been dissolved, it shouldn't and likely won't go away completely. don't be so oblivious.

[GZire]

Originally Posted by UTROD03

when the day comes that my race, sex, country of origin, etc, is of absolutely NO consequence, affirmative action is necessary. until the good 'ol boy network has been dissolved, it shouldn't and likely won't go away completely. don't be so oblivious.

So you have no issues that someone who busts their ass cannot get into college or get that scholarship because it's going to someone less qualified because of race?

[ggirl]

Originally Posted by GZire

So you have no issues that someone who busts their ass cannot get into college or get that scholarship because it's going to someone less qualified because of race?

Affirmative action, the set of public policies and initiatives designed to help eliminate past and present discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, or national origin, is under attack.

• Originally, civil rights programs were enacted to help African Americans become full citizens of the United States. The Thirteenth Amendment to the Constitution made slavery illegal; the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees equal protection under the law; the Fifteenth Amendment forbids racial discrimination in access to voting. The 1866 Civil Rights Act guarantees every citizen "the same right to make and enforce contracts ... as is enjoyed by white citizens ... "
• In 1896, the Supreme Court's decision in Plessy v. Ferguson upheld a "separate, but equal" doctrine that proved to be anything but equal for African Americans. The decision marked the end of the post-Civil War reconstruction era as Jim Crow laws spread across the South.
• In 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt signed Executive Order 8802 which outlawed segregationist hiring policies by defense-related industries which held federal contracts. Roosevelt's signing of this order was a direct result of efforts by Black trade union leader, A. Philip Randolph.
• During 1953 President Harry S. Truman's Committee on Government Contract Compliance urged the Bureau of Employment Security "to act positively and affirmatively to implement the policy of nondiscrimination . . . ."
• The 1954 Supreme Court decision in Brown v. Board of Education overturned Plessy v. Ferguson.
• The actual phrase "affirmative action" was first used in President Lyndon Johnson's 1965 Executive Order 11246 which requires federal contractors to "take affirmative action to ensure that applicants are employed, and that employees are treated during employment, without regard to their race, creed, color, or national origin."
• In 1967, Johnson expanded the Executive Order to include affirmative action requirements to benefit women.
• Other equal protection laws passed to make discrimination illegal were the 1964 Civil Rights Act, Title II and VII of which forbid racial discrimination in "public accommodations" and race and sex discrimination in employment, respectively; and the 1965 Voting Rights Act adopted after Congress found "that racial discrimination in voting was an insidious and pervasive evil which had been perpetuated in certain parts of the country through unremitting and ingenious defiance of the Constitution."

Much of the opposition to affirmative action is framed on the grounds of so-called "reverse discrimination and unwarranted preferences." In fact, less than 2 percent of the 91,000 employment discrimination cases pending before the Equal Employment Opportunities Commission are reverse discrimination cases. Under the law as written in Executive Orders and interpreted by the courts, anyone benefiting from affirmative action must have relevant and valid job or educational qualifications.

[UTROD03]

Originally Posted by GZire

So you have no issues that someone who busts their ass cannot get into college or get that scholarship because it's going to someone less qualified because of race?

gzire, i definitely see it both ways. i understand the frustration of a white guy who can't get into a school because he was passed on for a minority student. it's not fair....if the minority student isn't qualified for the position he or she is trying to obtain. affirmitive action is BS and counter-productive if whites are passed on for less-qualified minorities. if that's he point you're arguing from, i completely agree with you.

the problem is, the world isn't perfect. i can't look at a woman without acknowledging she's a woman, and one can't look at me without acknowledging that i'm a black man. that identification, for most, conjures up stereotypes and the like which make it impossible for one to judge the person who's standing in front of them objectively. therefore, we need something. with nothing, we'd be in MUCH worse shape than we are now.

try this. take race completely out of the question and base your opinions solely on sex. should a white man be hired before a white woman? should he earn more? he has always been, and likely will always be, hired before and paid more than his female counterpart for doing the exact same job at the exact same company. i don't know what race you are, but what if your father and mother both basically had the same resume, they applied for the same job, and they hired your mom at 70K/yr and your father at 90K? same job.

don't you see what's wrong with that?