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Old 07-07-2006, 04:06 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Why We Fight? a film by Eugene Jarecki

A friend of mine lent this to me and as I reach the end of my vacation I wondered what's it all about. This documentary is what Farenheit 9/11 tried to be before Moore became to campy and theatrical with his film. This film is very rewarding and I fear that it only preaches to the choir. I seriously think most people don't give a shit at what's going on in Iraq, what's going on in the White House, and how we are in dangerous times, not because of terrorists, but because of ourselves and who we elect into office. I think the American public has been duped, lied to and persuaded into believing certain philosophies about America's plight for freedom and democracy, yet we are at a point where I wonder how close we are losing our own freedoms at home.

The basis of the film can be summarized in two points.

A. With regards to the war in Iraq, why are we fighting? Do not answer this question, but realize that if you ask 10 different people you're going to get 10 different answers.

B. In President Eisenhower's Farewell address speech in which he coined the phrase, "military industrial complex," Eisenhower gave a forboding speech on American Industry when combined with American Militarization. I tried to edit it somewhat for brevity, but it's a good speech and should be read in its entirety here. http://www.eisenhower.archives.gov/farewell.htm:

IV
A vital element in keeping the peace is our military establishment. Our arms must be mighty, ready for instant action, so that no potential aggressor may be tempted to risk his own destruction.

Our military organization today bears little relation to that known by any of my predecessors in peace time, or indeed by the fighting men of World War II or Korea.

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence-economic, political, even spiritual-is felt in every city, every state house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been over shadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.

The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.

Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.

It is the task of statesmanship to mold, to balance, and to integrate these and other forces, new and old, within the principles of our democratic system-ever aiming toward the supreme goals of our free society.

V
Another factor in maintaining balance involves the element of time. As we peer into society's future, we-you and I, and our government-must avoid the impulse to live only for today, plundering, for our own ease and convenience, the precious resources of tomorrow. We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.
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Old 07-07-2006, 04:12 PM   #2 (permalink)
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By the way, this is the first docmentary I've seen to mention this group:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/ which still scares the shit out of me.

As I watched this documentary, there was one quote I read long ago that kept coming to mind. Something someone once said that made me realize that the terrorists we face are not the gravest enemies we are facing, it is ourselves:

"At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth . . . could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge in a trial of a thousand years . . . if destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide." - Abraham Lincoln, 1838
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Old 07-07-2006, 04:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Links to the film and reviews:

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whywefight/main.html

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/why_we_fight/
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Old 07-07-2006, 05:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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You pose a great question gamma. One that many, if not all free men, have been scared to dare attempt to answer. I personally feel that, since the 60's, American men and women have become much too complacent as they have been fed and handed their freedom on a silver plater. Instead of having earned it in one form or another. Too often people shrug their responsibility and pass the buck for others to "take care of".

On another note, I was at a conference at the Pentagon many years ago where some of our nation's most prominent military generals and analysts spoke. In it, they stated that since the late 1930's weapons have been a nation's most prized possession but rather the scientific minds that create them. I think that goes along somewhat whe Eike was saying way back then. The move, "Lord of War", comes to mind as I picture the proliferation of weapons in our current world and how everyone, yes-even the US, plays a huge role. I guess the big questions is how do we get out of a hole we've dug ourselves into for decades and where do we start.

Good thread gamma, as always.
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Old 07-07-2006, 05:47 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Check it out Zooms, I think you will find it enlightening.
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Old 07-07-2006, 05:49 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gammawolf
Check it out Zooms, I think you will find it enlightening.
Will definitely check it out gamma.
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Old 07-10-2006, 01:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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bump

SEE THIS MOVIE! Order it on Netflix or just go to your local video store.
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gammawolf
By the way, this is the first docmentary I've seen to mention this group:

http://www.newamericancentury.org/ which still scares the shit out of me.
Yes - if you notice that Dick Cheney and Rumsfeld are members of this organization, it makes perfect sense the direction our foreign policy has taken. They've been planning for years, and they saw 9/11 as an opportunity to set their plans in action. the only person missing is Condeleeza rice - who critized the UN as being a waste of Us military forces that are needed to project power in the world...i'll definitely check the film out on DVD. Unfortunately, the real people who need to see this will be flocking to see 'Superman' or "pirates' or some other escapist entertainment...
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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^^^^Whoaaaaaa, where did you come from noobie!

I wholeheartedly agree with you on your statement, but for a 10th post, I'm impressed. Yeah, check it out on DVD. Also be sure to see the special features who focus on Eisenhower and family who helped contribute to the dvd.
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
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^^^^Whoaaaaaa, where did you come from noobie!

I wholeheartedly agree with you on your statement, but for a 10th post, I'm impressed. Yeah, check it out on DVD. Also be sure to see the special features who focus on Eisenhower and family who helped contribute to the dvd.
Sorry for the surprise - been lurking around too much - haven't had time to post much, been a little more active in g35 though (i think like 60 posts...) but yeah, trying to build up those numbers. who knows, maybe I'll get to go to a meet eventually...
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:34 PM   #11 (permalink)
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come around more often Night, the TOT section is where the fun is at! look forward to meeting you at a meet one day. let us know what you think of the movie as well.

EDIT: by the way Night, see who else are members here http://www.newamericancentury.org/st...principles.htm all the hawks are there as well as Abrams, Jed Bush and Steve Forbes.
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:38 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gammawolf
come around more often Night, the TOT section is where the fun is at! look forward to meeting you at a meet one day. let us know what you think of the movie as well.
Will do - what is the TOT section?
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:40 PM   #13 (permalink)
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TOT = Totally Off Topic. I'm surprised you found this thread on your 10th post. Most noobies, including myself, didn't know this section existed until hundreds of posts later.
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Old 07-11-2006, 08:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gammawolf
TOT = Totally Off Topic. I'm surprised you found this thread on your 10th post. Most noobies, including myself, didn't know this section existed until hundreds of posts later.
cool - I've got potential then
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