6MT.net Infiniti G35/G37/GTR Community

Semi On · 08-08-2003, 05:01 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Both of you make valid points but I tend to agree with what mofo is saying here. The change in maturity between 18 to 21 in general is a bit more significant than those between 21 to 24 and so on. Note, I said in general. There are always exceptions. But in general, an 18 year old is out of the house, on his/her own for the first time in his/her life. During those three years, an idividual grows a lot and really starts to form their own opinions based on their personal experiences as a "free" adult, absent of the ever-present influence of their parents (of course, good parenting usually sticks with you and helps guide you through those years regardless of whether or not your parents are actually there). Again, not saying "kids" can't form opinions and think for themselves before they reach the age of 18, but I agree that significant amount of personal development takes place during those years.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

And the transition between 15 to 18 is even more extreme. The question then becomes, at which point along this logarithmic scale of average maturity is one considered mature enough to be a socially responsible adult.

The government has already answered that question. At 18, the average person is assumed to be responsible enough to be tried as an adult, have all contracts be legally bound, be drafted to defend the nation against his or her will and vote on the path the nation takes.

I'd argue that all of these are immensely more important to a society than the ability to drink a beer with dinner.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Semi, Semi, Semi... You LOVE pissing people off, don't you??<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I don't mean to piss anyone off. You know I like you, mofo.

Nothing I say is intended as a direct insult to you. I do however choose my words very carefully to focus your emotions as distinctly as I'm attempting to focus your sense of reason.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Are you kidding me with that line?? 17 may be considered a child and 18 an adult... TECHNICALLY... But COMMON SENSE would tell you otherwise!!! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Personal experience tells me it's entirely possible to raise a child that knows not to get into the car with a drunk moron.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> Do you think states made the min. age 21, for KICKS??....AH...NO!!!!! <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There's no need to yell.

And no, I think they made the drinking age 21 because MADD is one of the most powerful lobying groups in the country, they needed to do something to reduce the number of drunk driving accidents to appease this lobbying group, they were too lazy/stupid/shortsighted to choose something like better mass transit, and people don't tend to start voting until about 21 so screwing over those younger than this age would have the minimum impact on voting patterns.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">But you know what?? THEY MADE SURE, I learned to speak PROPER english, get an EDUCATION, and be a good citizen!!! That, HARD WORK is the way to achieve things and that EDUCATION is the key to success... <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Kindly produce for me some data that indicates these nefarious aliens are conspiring to prevent their children from learning English or that the entire lot of them fails to do so, thereby justifying your rather racist blanket statements.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Sorry, but I don't see that with many of TODAY'S immigrants...THEY'RE HERE ILLEGALLY AND REFUSE TO LEARN ENGLISH!!!<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

How many illegal immigrants do you associate with, exactly?

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Why is THAT suddenly OK??? Because they're willing to pick grapes??<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Refusing to learn a language common to an area, or, more importantly, not having the resources to do so, in a nation with no offical language and built by a mirriad of cultures is hardly "wrong". It's limitting and foolish in that it prevents you from accessing a great number of services but it's hardly evil or even rant-worthy.

Regards,
Semi

viczeva · 08-08-2003, 09:27 PM

i just wanted to know if i should get one guyz.....didnt mean to start WWIII, so everybody relax, if i go to jail...well it sucks, and if i dont good for me. thanx

rlipps · 08-08-2003, 09:41 PM

All right, I have been watching my father pass away at the ICU since midnight last night. So I am coming in on this late.

Semi, your last post was an excellent way to reply to MOFO's previous post. I am glad that you tactfully avoided a flame war that could have been started.

I don't think that anything that any of you have posted is completely ignorant. I think that all of the scenarios you all mention (drunk driving, maturity vs. age, illegal immigrants) are things that can change from one thing to another because they are case specific.

I am 18. I am not an angel. I am probably THE most mature 18 year old that I know. I also like to cut loose and drink. This doesn't mean that I drive drunk. This doesn't mean that other 18 year olds who are JUST AS mature as I am are NOT going to drive drunk. He may. But hey, he may not drink at all. It is all case specific, and it seems as though you are all missing the big picture here.

Responsibility is the subject at hand. Some people are ready for it some are not. Shit, one of my cousins is 31 and constantly does stupid shit that I would never do. IMO I don't think that he specifically should be able to consume alcohol. Does this mean that they should raise the drinking age to 32? Of course not. I think that France actually does it right by exposing the youth to alcohol (wine) at an early age in a family enviorment. This allows parents (who would truly know the child) to determine if their child is mature enough for alcohol. I am not saying that we should adopt France's lax drinking policy. But I am trying to prove the point that the responsibility level of EACH individual will be the determining factor in whether or not they should drink.

Also, it is kind of pointless to get at each others throats. Healthy debates are fun and interesting, especially when both arguments are very very strong. But the best debaters typically take the middle ground, don't see in black and white but rather gray, and see the whole picture.

Lets keep the peace, gentlemen.

**Gardiner** · 08-08-2003, 09:46 PM

Rlipps, sorry to hear about your father.

**Gardiner** · 08-08-2003, 09:49 PM

Maybe we have viczeva wrong, he might not want to go out and get drunk. Maybe he wants to rent a car or visit a casino. Maybe he wants to see a movie that he is too young for. Maybe he wants to date an older woman and needs to be a little bit older. Only viczeva knows his true intentions.

2003.5 G35 A5 Sedan | 2003 Z06 Corvette | 2003 S10 Extended cab | 1991 Honda CRXsi

rlipps · 08-08-2003, 10:10 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gardiner

Rlipps, sorry to hear about your father.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

It is all right. I am dealing. It is a part of life. I got home and needed something to take him off of my mind so I came here hoping to see something that would cheer me up. Saw a couple of posts with Bizz's mispellings and it made me laugh.[

]

1CRAZMOFO · 08-08-2003, 11:40 PM

Semi...I'm sorry I lost my shit there...I respect you and your opinions...I KNOW you're no dummy...but you're not ALWAYS right...

Lipps...Sorry to hear what you are going through...Been down that road and it's tough...Hang in there....

Anyway...

While actually raising some kids, I can tell you that I'm very glad the min. age is 21...And don't get me wrong, I love to party as much as anyone!!! But peer pressure and alcohol is a very dangerous combination. The problem is not a beer with dinner for an 18 yro..It's 2 KEGS OF HEINEKEN at a party!!! Peer pressure leads to getting trashed...getting trashed leads to getting killed...In the last 23 years, I've been to 4 funerals of young friends, co-workers children and aquaintances who died in auto accidents. I can tell you that the anguish in those parents faces is something you NEVER forget.

All it takes is one trashed asshole to ruin the lives of many people!!
I've seen it happen with my own eyes...

Sorry for the diatribe about the illegals, that's a WHOLE other topic for another forum and another day...[image]http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons/57.gif[/image]

**kloh** · 08-09-2003, 02:24 PM

Again, I agree with some of mofo's points here. And again, I will speak in GENERALIZATIONS since everyone is different. Peer pressure is much higher at 18 than it is at 21. By the time most people reach 21, they have a very strong sense of self. Many 18 year-olds are just beginning to figure that out. Obviously, there are a lot of 18 year olds here on the board that this doesn't apply to, but I would venture to guess that they could see what I'm talking about in a lot of their friends/peers.

However, I can't argue against Semi's points as well. If you can fight and die for your country at 18, I'll be damned if a soldier can't have a drink legally when he's kickin' back with the boys.

rlipps, sorry to heard about your dad. It was good you were there though.

1CRAZMOFO · 08-09-2003, 02:50 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"> However, I can't argue against Semi's points as well. If you can fight and die for your country at 18, I'll be damned if a soldier can't have a drink legally when he's kickin' back with the boys.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

No doubt!!

The only difference is that by the time that soldier is ready to fight and die...He's a disciplined man, and no longer a wreckless boy (Hopefully...in most cases I would think)[image]http://www.fadzter.com/smilies/sniperer.gif[/image]

Semi On · 08-09-2003, 04:30 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">While actually raising some kids, I can tell you that I'm very glad the min. age is 21...And don't get me wrong, I love to party as much as anyone!!! But peer pressure and alcohol is a very dangerous combination. The problem is not a beer with dinner for an 18 yro..It's 2 KEGS OF HEINEKEN at a party!!! Peer pressure leads to getting trashed...getting trashed leads to getting killed...In the last 23 years, I've been to 4 funerals of young friends, co-workers children and aquaintances who died in auto accidents. I can tell you that the anguish in those parents faces is something you NEVER forget.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Drinking age is between 16 and 18 in most of Europe. They don't have anything even close to resembling our problems with alcohol here. We keep making it more and more attractive to kids by making it more and more taboo.

There, they simply relinquish this notion and they don't have our problems at all. Something to think about.

viczeva · 08-09-2003, 08:41 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Gardiner

Maybe we have viczeva wrong, he might not want to go out and get drunk. Maybe he wants to rent a car or visit a casino. Maybe he wants to see a movie that he is too young for. Maybe he wants to date an older woman and needs to be a little bit older. Only viczeva knows his true intentions.

2003.5 G35 A5 Sedan | 2003 Z06 Corvette | 2003 S10 Extended cab | 1991 Honda CRXsi
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

EXACTLY, in dont need an ID to go drunk guys, anybody knows that EVERY party has alcohol, so i dont need an ID for that, what i need an Id for is to be able to get into the AWESOME clubs here in south miami beach, that the only reason why....

**Gardiner** · 08-10-2003, 02:02 PM

viczeva, have you ever been to Madison Hammock?

2003.5 G35 A5 Sedan | 2003 Z06 Corvette | 2003 S10 Extended cab | 1991 Honda CRXsi

viczeva · 09-10-2003, 11:40 PM

gardiner!!!!!! u were right. what can i say? shi-a-t happens![censored][

]

rlipps · 09-10-2003, 11:52 PM

What happened vicz?

**kloh** · 09-11-2003, 12:05 AM

Yes vicz, what happened? We're all very curious...[bigeyes]