Is it just my imagination or are there a great many people who forget what real religious radicalism is all about? In this country, we have a great many people who condem the so called "religious right" for their "radical" views. I mean, how dare anyone right letters to NBC for what airing a comedy that makes fun of Christian ideals (Book of Daniel - upcoming Will & Grace episode)? How dare these radicals complain and write letters when the Ten Commandments are taken down in schools? How dare they raise their voices when they aren't allowed to pray in public?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not defending the irresponsible comments of people like Pat Robertson, but let's get things straight. I'm tired of the "religious right" being a target in this country by hypocritical people who will jump at the chance to defend, for example, Palestinian extremists who consistently kill in all manner.
Yes, radicals here have blown up abortion clinics on rare occasions and have done other deeds not worthy of their beliefs. But where are their critics when it comes to looking at Hamas and other extremists? Don't you get it? Liberal Americans listen up... there are very few "religious right" zealots who would kill you for being liberal, but there are hundreds of thousands of Muslim zealots who would kill you for just being American. You can't pass all that hatred off on Bush, it has been there for thousands of years. When do THEY have to take responsibilty for their actions instead of blaming Israel, Republicans and the so-called "religious right"?
(How'd I ever get going in this TOT forum... car talk is much more fun... )
Here's the iisue: Everyone has the right to believe anything they want in this country. Whatever your spiritual beliefs are, I want you to be able to live and express them to your heart's content. The problem arises when you try to impose those beliefs on everyone else. And you don't have to be blowing up abortion clinics or killing people for it to be a problem.
My issues with the religious right is the fact that many of them feel entitiled to impose their religious ideas and morals on the entire country. For example, the control they have over the FCC. The FCC should exist to protect the first amendment, instead they use their power to inhibit it. Entertainers like Howard Stern are forced to leave regular radio because he becomes a lightning rod for the conservative agenda and gets fined unfairly.
...or when public school systems, like in Cobb County Georgia, remove evolution from science textbooks in favor of "intelligent design" as a thinly veiled effort to inject religion into school curriculum.
...or the judge in Alabama who displayed the monument to the 10 Commandments on the steps to a courthouse. A courthouse should be the last place ANY religious symbol should be placed becuase it should be operating independently of ANY relgious faith's ideals. Instead it should be operating SOLELY on an objective interpretation of the Constitution and laws, not on the interpretations of ANY religious faith. How objective is a judge fighting that hard to keep his faith's religious symbol in his courthouse?
This is my issue with the religious right. It has nothing to do with what is going on in the Middle East.
And I agree, you should have the freedom to believe what you wish in this country. But doesn't everyone really have an "agenda". Even keeping creationism out of schools is an agenda. And keeping it in is also an agenda. Most Christians in this country wouldn't have the right of a Muslim to pray or believe what they want taken away by government mandate. In fact, the true majority of Americas founders were Puritan Christians who were fleeing pursecution. They founded the docrine of our country on freedom of religion (not freedom FROM religion mind you).
My argument here does have to do with the Middle East and how many Americans are quick to judge tempered (in persepective) religious thought here and not the violent radicalism of many Islamic groups.
It is not only the poor and oppressed who chant "Death to America" and burn and seige embassies. It's also university students and professors, business owners, etc. I'm only looking for a little more level-headedness from many Americans who are quick to judge a Christian agenda, but not an Islamic one.
Of course everyone has an agenda. My point is that a religious agenda (any religion) should be kept out of schools and government.
To get back to your point, I think it's a bit of an unfair analogy. Just because no one is torching buildings or killing people doesn't mean we should be concerned about the Christian Coalition's agenda for government. Do we have to let it escalate to what's over there before we can classify it as wrong? I want to keep religion out of government entirely because as soon as you start making and interpreting laws based on religious ideals, everyone's freedoms are in danger.
Actually, and forgive me if I wasn't too clear, my point isn't so much that people complain about the religious right, but rather that they DON'T seem to complain as much about Islamic fundamentalism.
Of course everyone has an agenda. My point is that a religious agenda (any religion) should be kept out of schools and government.
To get back to your point, I think it's a bit of an unfair analogy. Just because no one is torching buildings or killing people doesn't mean we should be concerned about the Christian Coalition's agenda for government. Do we have to let it escalate to what's over there before we can classify it as wrong? I want to keep religion out of government entirely because as soon as you start making and interpreting laws based on religious ideals, everyone's freedoms are in danger.
Amen to that Navy (no irony intended
Hell, the thing that gets me is the presence of religion in the military..... they were going to MAKE me have a chaplain at my promotion? How is that even a little legal. There are Sr generals out there who are so crazy christian, they really do view it as a holy war... its terrifyin. I am happy to be a tool of democracy and even prosperity but I draw the line at religious morality. It offends me on a basic soul shaking level to see military symbolism combined with Christianity, be it chaplains that US tax payers are funding in the military, knights of coulmbus in psydo military uniforms marching down the aisle in mass as though they were of equal theological weight as the priest and the procession!!
Scares me as a Catholic, as an AF Officer, and as an American.
Actually, and forgive me if I wasn't too clear, my point isn't so much that people complain about the religious right, but rather that they DON'T seem to complain as much about Islamic fundamentalism.
I don't get this at all!? I think people of all stripes are venhemently opposed to Islamic fundamentalism.... I would argue in far larger proportions that those who oppose the religious right domestically...
apples and oranges though really, as one is really evident in domestic political and moral discussions, and the other in broader geo-strategic international discussions.....
The thing that bothers me is that they call Pat Robertson and these other religious fanatics the "Religious Right". I lean towards the right side of the aisle and I go to church every week. I am part of the "Religious Right", yet I think that Pat Robertson and these other clowns are whackos. Those scumbags who blow up abortion clinics and kill doctors in the name of religion are fanatical hypocrites who have no basis to claim that their religious beliefs led them to that heinous act.
I have stated many times on 6mt that ANYTHING taken to the extreme is bad, whether it be religion, conservatism, liberalism, secularism, or anything else. I use my religious beliefs to help guide me and help me to be the best person that I can be from a moral standpoint. I have no intention of forcing my views on others and would appreciate if others didn't look down on me because of my beliefs. THX is right on when he talks about how Christians are portrayed by the media. God forbid that they would ever see the good in a belief system that suggests that you "love thy neighbor" and not kill, steal, or cheat on your spouse among other things. Islam teaches its followers to get rid of the infidels and promotes violence.
Pat Robertson and company should be called Christian fanatics or extremists, not "Religious Right" and they should be ignored as should other extremists.
The thing that bothers me is that they call Pat Robertson and these other religious fanatics the "Religious Right". I lean towards the right side of the aisle and I go to church every week. I am part of the "Religious Right", yet I think that Pat Robertson and these other clowns are whackos. Those scumbags who blow up abortion clinics and kill doctors in the name of religion are fanatical hypocrites who have no basis to claim that their religious beliefs led them to that heinous act.
I have stated many times on 6mt that ANYTHING taken to the extreme is bad, whether it be religion, conservatism, liberalism, secularism, or anything else. I use my religious beliefs to help guide me and help me to be the best person that I can be from a moral standpoint. I have no intention of forcing my views on others and would appreciate if others didn't look down on me because of my beliefs. THX is right on when he talks about how Christians are portrayed by the media. God forbid that they would ever see the good in a belief system that suggests that you "love thy neighbor" and not kill, steal, or cheat on your spouse among other things. Islam teaches its followers to get rid of the infidels and promotes violence.
Pat Robertson and company should be called Christian fanatics or extremists, not "Religious Right" and they should be ignored as should other extremists.
I really just don't think the media or anyone else has a problem with Christians living thier lives the way they want... people have a problem with Christians telling others how to liver thier life... but I have honestly never heard anyone take issue with the individual choices of that segment of society... just dont censor my TV, make my kids pray in school, or prevent gay guys in my town from doing whatever they want so long as it doesn't affect you!
I really just don't think the media or anyone else has a problem with Christians living thier lives the way they want... people have a problem with Christians telling others how to liver thier life... but I have honestly never heard anyone take issue with the individual choices of that segment of society... just dont censor my TV, make my kids pray in school, or prevent gay guys in my town from doing whatever they want so long as it doesn't affect you!
just dont censor my TV, make my kids pray in school, or prevent gay guys in my town from doing whatever they want so long as it doesn't affect you!
Sounds perfectly fine to me
However, I don't want to see gay guys trying to push their gayness off on everyone else, just as they wouldn't want me to push my heterosexuality or christianity off on them. There always seems to be a double standard with certain groups ("religious right" included). It really bothers me how everybody wants to push their own agenda, whether they be gay, straight, black, white, hispanic, elderly, young, Catholic, Jewish, etc., etc., etc. We are all Americans and we should stand strong as a country rather than try to pull ourselves apart at the seams by focusing on our differences. We need to recognize our differences and use these differences to bring various strengths and perspectives to the table, but remember that we are all Americans, and we need to focus on what is right for our country regardless of what right for our cause or agenda.
Careful what you say there... I'm pretty sure Islam doesn't do this. Even W came out and said that Islam doesn't promote violence... I know some Muslims, and they're nice people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckforensic
Islam teaches its followers to get rid of the infidels and promotes violence.
Good article, man. Not sure what your main question or concern is exactly, forgive me I can be a bit obtuse when my mind is elsewhere...did you mean to say that as a religious right person you felt that you were being misunderstood?
Living in Ohio, the "religious right" are constantly sitting behind me at work babbling like a bunch of chicken heads. I've got about another hour of peace and then they will be doing it...they walk around all day long telling everyone they are going to hell, I am not kidding here. I only interface with them on other topics and never engage that side of them. I am a bit sad that I won't share spiritual fellowship with a group of humans for the rest of my life, I could be have very healthy life with that going on.
It is harmful to my mind that I see on a regular basis such a dramatically bad side of religion everywhere I go in Ohio with very little good example to balance it out. It skews my perspective and yoke that with the tendency of all the criminally unmindful American journalism...you get my very bad view of all religious groups. Oh, gosh add History to the mix and you have a pretty good case for thinking now and again that at the core of most religions is conversion by death if necessary. Though I know that most of my morality has been formed by what I believe to be some of the more useful words accredited to Jesus Christ.
I feel the same way about Islamic Fundamentalists as I do any Fundamentalist if not worse. 9/11 really is linked in my mind as a direct response from murdering terrorists to what they felt were religious and imperialistic practices by our government.
Careful what you say there... I'm pretty sure Islam doesn't do this. Even W came out and said that Islam doesn't promote violence... I know some Muslims, and they're nice people.
Here are a few quotes from the quran that imply it:
4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,
4:91 Ye will find others who desire that they should have security from you, and security from their own folk. So often as they are returned to hostility they are plunged therein. If they keep not aloof from you nor offer you peace nor hold their hands, then take them and kill them wherever ye find them. Against such We have given you clear warrant.
8:59 And let not those who disbelieve suppose that they can outstrip (Allah's Purpose). Lo! they cannot escape. . 8:60 Make ready for them all thou canst of (armed) force and of horses tethered, that thereby ye may dismay the enemy of Allah and your enemy, and others beside them whom ye know not. Allah knoweth them. Whatsoever ye spend in the way of Allah it will be repaid to you in full, and ye will not be wronged.
9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush.
9:123 O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you,, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).
Honestly, this thread was started as an exercise in observation. That is, I have observed so many converations, media discussions and forum threads that start on the topic of terrorism, Iraq, Hamas, etc, but then somewhere along the way, BAM!... it's the "Religious Right" and their Illuminati-like power over the administration and/or other government functions. That's really BS. If the so-called religious right had that much power, abortion would be banned, the ten commandments would remain in schools and courthouses, and creationism would be taught. That's their agenda. So what, big deal. It's a free country as everyone would agree. That means that a large group of individuals has the right to try and sway government, just as another group has a right to do the same, if not opposite sway.
Again, the point of the thread is explained in the first few lines here.
The real "Religious Right"?
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