Don't let Smoke discourage you JL, you've presented some very good arguments and backed it up with data, which is better than just going with your feelings and IMO's when it comes to this sort of debate.
It doesn't matter if you can change Smoke's opinion or not. I've debated with Smoke before and realized, as I've realized with others, you state your clear argument, back up your shit, and tell a good story - and if you can't convince him or others because they are unreceptive, stubborn, or just plain ignorant (not you Smoke), then at the very least, others who have listened will be more receptive and motivated to research it on their own and come up with more answers - and more importantly - more questions against the current establishment.
No, what this shows, is that our current policies and BILLIONS OF DOLLARS are not curbing drug use.
people are allowed to try ANYTHING they want. WE as a nation only have the responsibility of letting them know what they should do, in contrast to what they shouldnt do. what they end up doing, is their own business. the DARE program is doing it's job: teaching the consequences of doing drugs. but it all boils down to the decision of the person.
This statement is contradicting your previous stance. If "what they end up doing, is their own business" were true then drugs would not be illegal. Because they are illegal it is the governements business.
The Dare program and drug education programs in general are not spreading accurate information. We have been using scare tactics for more than a decade and the public inlcluding young people can see right through it.
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ok look jl, if you're all for doing drugs and legalizing marijuana.
then you go ahead and stuff your kids with all the drugs/weed you want. if you are SOOOOO sure that marijuana wont lead to other effects, then do it. ENCOURAGE your child to take marijuana from strangers. FEED THEM YOUR KNOWLEDGE, and your numbers, saying that he/she is FOR SURE not going to fall victim to other drugs. oh, but tell them to keep away from alcohol and tobacco we wouldnt them getting dirty with these evil products
You've missed the entire point Smoke. It's about how and where my tax dollars are spent. It's about making our world safer by focusing on issues that pose more harm than smoking a joint in the own house. It's about having the right to make your own decisions. It's about Freedom in regard to a substance that has been medically proven safer than alcohol.
If I ever have children I will be completely honest with them about my experience and knowledge of drugs. It would be my responsibility to educate my children with facts and steer them in a healthy direction while raising them. Nobody, myself included, is advocating drug use among minors, the same as alcohol. Once they are an adult they will be armed with accurate information and I will have faith in them to lead a successful life. What they do with it is their CHOICE. Nothing in life is FOR SURE. No substance in the world is completely harm free.
Don't let Smoke discourage you JL, you've presented some very good arguments and backed it up with data, which is better than just going with your feelings and IMO's when it comes to this sort of debate.
It doesn't matter if you can change Smoke's opinion or not. I've debated with Smoke before and realized, as I've realized with others, you state your clear argument, back up your shit, and tell a good story - and if you can't convince him or others because they are unreceptive, stubborn, or just plain ignorant (not you Smoke), then at the very least, others who have listened will be more receptive and motivated to research it on their own and come up with more answers - and more importantly - more questions against the current establishment.
I'm not discouraged Gamma. Facts are the only place to reside with matters of this nature. And I believe Smoke is ignorant regarding this topic as I've yet to see him present anything other than his personal opinion. I know he won't change his opinion but I can't let these falsehoods sit out here like this.
there is a mix of the history of DARE, why it is "ineffective" and what they're going to do about that, what the intentions are, and most importantly ESSAYS FROM STUDENTS WHO HAVE TAKEN DARE.
besides, your point of the DARE program and others not being effective is beyond ridiculous. yes, so 80% of students have tried A DRUG. big whoop, so how does that translate to making drugs legal, and being a step in the right direction for us? HOW!?!? it doesnt, all it's doing is showing that we need new strategies for schools.
We spend billions of dollars to achieve what??? What are the results of all that money spent? The current tactics being used simply are not working and the FACTS (ie; statistics from multiple studies) back that statement up. Please read item 26 again http://www.drugwarfacts.org/marijuan.pdf
Our government has long resorted to scare tactics instead of facts. The panel our own government setup to study this is are the ones urging them to tell the truth and lower/repeal our current marijuana laws. Here's an idea, maybe the Government should educate the public, including our education system, with the facts instead of propaganda.
facts like what? "if you take drugs, you dont necessairly run the risk of ending up TOO bad" or "if you take drugs, you still have a chance of getting an education". maybe it's just me, but i dont want my children growing up thinking 'its ok' to smoke marijuana. 'that getting high does no harm.' so the program has been proven to be "ineffective", and you suggest we just drop the program all together? most parents would DISAGREE with you. if the DARE program is as bad as it's being advertised (funny, and you talk about propoganda), then it should be reconstructed to target an area in which it will reach ALL children. not just abolish it all together. if the war of drugs has come this far, why stop now?
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and FYI, you say that it's best for the governments of drug lord nations to obtain the money, well guess what. MOST OF THE LATIN AMERICAN GOVERNMENTS DO!!!!!!! why dont you think they wont go after the drug lords? they already have their dibs on the pot! you obviously do not understand the workings of our corrupt nations, being arab and all, so please, dont comment.
Who said anything about foreign governments??? If I can dig up another link I will, but our goverment was paying farmers in California to NOT grow marijuana. You know, creating more jobs for our fellow americans. A ton of farmers have been priced out of their regular crops and in order to keep their farms are resorting to growing marijuana instead. Interesting subject actually.
so when you claimed that the money should be obtained by a better party, who the hell were you referring to?? maybe im confusing your argument with gamma's.
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you obviously do not understand the workings of our corrupt nations, being arab and all, so please, dont comment.
This is one of the most fucking ignorant statements I've heard in a long time. I'm not Arab, a mix of just about everything else, but not arab. If you'd like to verify that statement please check the photo gallery at the top of the off topic section. And just for the record, even if I was Arab, in no way shape or form would that invalidate anything of the facts I've mentioned.
i do not GIVE A FUCK what the FUCK YOU ARE. i just believe i saw you say you were arab somewhere. perhaps im confusing you with someone else. what a coincidence that you like arab food too i did not say that being arab would nullify any of your statements. i was merely upholding my foreign governments arguement, and that you would not know what it's like. WHICH YOU STILL DONT ANYWAYS. oh, and by the way, your "FACTS" STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED HOW MAKING DRUGS LEGAL WOULD MAKE US A BETTER NATION.
stop throwing around your random facts, and stick to the topic that me and gamma established.
No, what this shows, is that our current policies and BILLIONS OF DOLLARS are not curbing drug use.
people are allowed to try ANYTHING they want. WE as a nation only have the responsibility of letting them know what they should do, in contrast to what they shouldnt do. what they end up doing, is their own business. the DARE program is doing it's job: teaching the consequences of doing drugs. but it all boils down to the decision of the person.
This statement is contradicting your previous stance. If "what they end up doing, is their own business" were true then drugs would not be illegal. Because they are illegal it is the governements business.
my stance HAS been, and WILL be, that marijuana and drugs should remain illegal. you have thrown out a lot of random facts, but yet, you have NOT proved ONCE why it would be ok to legalize the drug in the first place(which was the original topic at hand). you have since turned it into a war against DARE. that dare doesnt work, therefore, it should be abolished. I'm am simply saying that IF the dare program is as bad as it's being advertised, then the plan should be RECONSTRUCTED, and presented differently. but please tell me, WHAT THE FUCK DOES THIS HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH LEGALIZING MARIJUANA?!??!
The Dare program and drug education programs in general are not spreading accurate information. We have been using scare tactics for more than a decade and the public inlcluding young people can see right through it.
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ok look jl, if you're all for doing drugs and legalizing marijuana.
then you go ahead and stuff your kids with all the drugs/weed you want. if you are SOOOOO sure that marijuana wont lead to other effects, then do it. ENCOURAGE your child to take marijuana from strangers. FEED THEM YOUR KNOWLEDGE, and your numbers, saying that he/she is FOR SURE not going to fall victim to other drugs. oh, but tell them to keep away from alcohol and tobacco we wouldnt them getting dirty with these evil products
You've missed the entire point Smoke. It's about how and where my tax dollars are spent. It's about making our world safer by focusing on issues that pose more harm than smoking a joint in the own house. It's about having the right to make your own decisions. It's about Freedom in regard to a substance that has been medically proven safer than alcohol.
HELLO!!? you FORCED IN your own argument. i was sticking to legalizing marijuana, and why it should remain illegal. YOU on the contrary, have gone way out of way to show how the DARE program has done nothing. and started bithing about your tax money. LOOK AT MY SITES, THE PROGRAMS WILL CHANGE, THEY WILL REIMPROVE. but stick to the fucking topic. oh, and FYI, the DARE program teaches much more than just drug awareness. it teaches about alcohol, gang violence, and ways to clear of problems. did you even take DARE? tell me smartass, since you know how you want your tax money to be used... what would you want? would you want the DARE program to rework their problems, or would you want it to go elsewhere?
If I ever have children I will be completely honest with them about my experience and knowledge of drugs. It would be my responsibility to educate my children with facts and steer them in a healthy direction while raising them. Nobody, myself included, is advocating drug use among minors, the same as alcohol. Once they are an adult they will be armed with accurate information and I will have faith in them to lead a successful life. What they do with it is their CHOICE. Nothing in life is FOR SURE. No substance in the world is completely harm free.
i agree, no substance in the world is completely harm-free, but there are some substances that are more harmful than others. by showing kids in general how certain substances are bad, then at least they would be aware of what surrounds them. my gf's parents use to smoke marijuana. even though they turned out alright, they always tell their kids that it was stupid, immature, and it could've led to worser things. they are trying to PREVENT their children from traveling the same path, or a worser one, than they did. THAT'S WHAT THE DAMN DARE PROGRAM IS FOORRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't let Smoke discourage you JL, you've presented some very good arguments and backed it up with data, which is better than just going with your feelings and IMO's when it comes to this sort of debate.
It doesn't matter if you can change Smoke's opinion or not. I've debated with Smoke before and realized, as I've realized with others, you state your clear argument, back up your shit, and tell a good story - and if you can't convince him or others because they are unreceptive, stubborn, or just plain ignorant (not you Smoke), then at the very least, others who have listened will be more receptive and motivated to research it on their own and come up with more answers - and more importantly - more questions against the current establishment.
I'm not discouraged Gamma. Facts are the only place to reside with matters of this nature. And I believe Smoke is ignorant regarding this topic as I've yet to see him present anything other than his personal opinion. I know he won't change his opinion but I can't let these falsehoods sit out here like this.
i dont get what your deal is jl. i was merely presenting gamma with work to stretch his brain, and you got all fucking tight assed about it.
first of all, i am not ignorant to what you're talking about. i think ive presented my facts, and my arguements pretty well.
second of all, falsehoods about what? about the DARE program not being "effective"? marijuana not being a gateway drug? which by the way, is the MOST ABSURD THING I'VE EVER HEARD. how the fuck are you going to tell me it's not a fucking gateway drug?!?!? when i saw some of my fucking friends fall into marijuana, and then end up fucking taking crack, heroin, LSD etc?!?!? it might not be a gateway drug to EVERYONE, but it still LEADS PLENTY OF INDIVIDUALS INTO addiction.
HERE ARE THE FUCKING FACTS THAT PROVE EVERYTHING IVE SAID.
there is a mix of the history of DARE, why it is "ineffective" and what they're going to do about that, what the intentions are, and most importantly ESSAYS FROM STUDENTS WHO HAVE TAKEN DARE.
Post all the links to DARE you would like. Personal testimonies by kids, police or parents, it doesn't matter. The Bottom line is that the amount of of kids using marijuana has not decreased. I'm not stating that drug education should cease. Quite the contrary. I think we should continue educating but stick to the facts instead embellishing the truth. When kids grow up and realize that they have been lied to it distorts their future trust in that entity.
there is a mix of the history of DARE, why it is "ineffective" and what they're going to do about that, what the intentions are, and most importantly ESSAYS FROM STUDENTS WHO HAVE TAKEN DARE.
Post all the links to DARE you would like. Personal testimonies by kids, police or parents, it doesn't matter. The Bottom line is that the amount of of kids using marijuana has not decreased.
some of those sites claim the opposite.
of course, the numbers arent STAGGERING like we would hope. but it's better than nothing.
I think you are misunderstanding my stance and for some reason think I am against DARE. I think you are the one distorting this discussion to focus on DARE and not me. I posted a link that mentioned DARE (currently the drug awareness program for schools) and the number of teenage users. The link sourced a study that showed the % of teenage marijuana users staying the same and not decreasing, that's it. Never once did I link or state anything that says we should not continue to educate our youth about the ill effects of marijuana or other drugs. The reason it was even brought up is that the main factor to determine if The War On Drugs is working is to look at the number drug users over the years. If the % of people who use goes down compared to the past then a logical conclusion would be that we are making progress. If the % stays the same or continues to increase then the logical conclusion would be that it is not working.
Because the % of users has remained steady, actually increasing among Marijuana users, the logical conclusion is that our current efforts are not curbing drug use, specifically marijuana. This trend holds true among young, middle aged and older demographics. It is important to look at all age categories to see if there are any trends within them.
[quote]second of all, falsehoods about what? about the DARE program not being "effective"? marijuana not being a gateway drug? which by the way, is the MOST ABSURD THING I'VE EVER HEARD. how the fuck are you going to tell me it's not a fucking gateway drug?!?!? when i saw some of my fucking friends fall into marijuana, and then end up fucking taking crack, heroin, LSD etc?!?!? it might not be a gateway drug to EVERYONE, but it still LEADS PLENTY OF INDIVIDUALS INTO addiction.
HERE ARE THE FUCKING FACTS THAT PROVE EVERYTHING IVE SAID.
http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/pot/a/blwusm030503.htm
Early Smoking Influences Later Drug, Alcohol Problems
A team of researchers from the United States and Australia has found that the age when a person begins to smoke marijuana has a significant influence on whether they will develop problems with drugs and alcohol later in life, independent of his or her genetic and family background http://alcoholism.about.com/od/pot/
A.
Contrary to popular belief most teenagers have not used marijuana and never will. Among students surveyed in a yearly national survey, only about one in five 10th graders report they are current marijuana users (that is, used marijuana within the past month). Fewer than one in four high school seniors is a current marijuana user.
http://www.pdxnorml.org/gateway.html
The primary basis for this "gateway hypothesis" is a recent report by the center on Addiction and Substance Abuse (CASA),
i did not say that being arab would nullify any of your statements. i was merely upholding my foreign governments arguement, and that you would not know what it's like. WHICH YOU STILL DONT ANYWAYS. oh, and by the way, your "FACTS" STILL HAVE NOT ANSWERED HOW MAKING DRUGS LEGAL WOULD MAKE US A BETTER NATION.