And Micheal Irvin... he's the poster boy for narcotic fueled wide recievers
I'm thinking that Lawrence Taylor is probably the poster-boy for NFL Narcotics use.
I think the truelly great cool people are timeless.
You don't look back on them 10 years later and say... "God.. what a dork that guy was, I can't believe we all thought he was cool".
__________________ -2004.5 6MT G35 Coupe, Diamond Graphite/Graphite, Aero, Premium, Nav, Splash Guards, Aluminum Pedals, Z-Tube and K&N Air Filter, 3/8\" Motordyne Plenum Spacer -2001 Toyota Tacoma SR5 Stepside 5-Speed 4X4 with siderails, Tonneau Cover, Bed Liner, and Rain Guards -1990 Nissan 240SX SE 5-speed with some minor mods
When you mention an athlete who is cool, you have to take in what sets him apart from all the rests. Deon and Michael are or will be future hall of famers . . . but did they pave the way? Are they the greatest of all time? Did they establish themselves as THE man for the position?
I think Deion actually did do that for the league. He redefined how the cornerback postion is played. He also is looked at as the starter of outlandish touchdown dances that are mimicked to this day.
I know you'll harp on me about being a Raider Fan, but Jack (the Assasin) Tatum, George Atkinson (aka Dr. Death) and Willie Brown made those DB positions. Ronnie Lott grew up watching Jack Tatum and wanted to play like him. You could even say Mel Blount was one of the greatest (Hell, he had to cover Lynn Swann all day long during practice) and I wouldn't argue. Particularly when it comes to Bump and Run coverage. No way. But Deion???? Gifted Athlete no doubt. I do remember him playing baseball too. But iconic cool? Well I guess it's a matter of opinion. But he's not cool in my book.
I was waiting for someone to agree with me with regards to Hugh Hefner.
Hugh Hefner is cool because he's the Playboy and was a key ingredient for the Sexual Revolution in this country. He had Marilyn Monroe pose nude for his magazine for Christ's Sake. The posters from his magazine are was admired by our GI's in Korea and Vietnam but hated by the extreme right for being pornographic. His magazine has interviews with every notable historical figure from Malcolm X & MLK to Kissinger to Snoop Dog and Pat Moynihan. He is cool, has style, business savy, and still gets laid from the hottest chicks 3 to 4 times his younger. That's an icon in my book.
Damn straight...I mean the life he leads and the way he portrays himself amazes me...he is very collected and extremely intelligent...the man is my idol...
But iconic cool? Well I guess it's a matter of opinion. But he's not cool in my book.
Actually he's not in my book either. I wouldn't even say he's the greatest cornerback either but he definitely redefined the way that position is played as the game has evolved.
You know who I think is cool, since this thread seams to be leaning towards athletes, #34 Walter Payton. aka Sweetness. 13 Seasons, 16,726 rushing yards (#2 next to Emmit) and he only missed 1 game.
Every Payton run started with the trademark first-step burst that carried him into the hole, where he could accelerate to daylight or explode into a tackler with aggressive, punishing force. Every Payton run ended with the 5-10, 200-pounder grinding, scrapping, fighting, battling for one more yard. All with grace . . . do you remember that little gazelle step he would take when he was open in mid-field. That was so cool. Right before he would lower the shoulder and punish you as you attempted to tackle him.
Need a block? Payton could deliver with the fierce drive of a fullback, a role he relished even more than his ball-carrying exploits. His powerful legs and sledgehammer arms were feared weapons, as was the delight he took in clearing a hole or protecting his quarterback.
Among his 77 100-yard performances was a record 275-yard effort in 1977 against the Vikings and his 21,264 combined rushing/receiving yards accounted for 125 touchdowns, 110 on the ground.
I used to love watching him play. I know, I'm a Raider Fan and the Raiders have had their share of Great running backs, but I still remember Walter Payton aka Sweetness. Very cool.
My friend and I were actually talking about how the Raiders are on a streak of having no consistent quality feature RB's.
It dates back to the days just after Marcus Allen and Bo Jackson from what we could remember. Charlie Garner was always more of a 3rd down/reciever type back.
Do we think Lamont Jordan can be the one to buck the trend and actually string together 2 or more years of consistent performance as the lone quality starting back in Raiderville?
__________________ -2004.5 6MT G35 Coupe, Diamond Graphite/Graphite, Aero, Premium, Nav, Splash Guards, Aluminum Pedals, Z-Tube and K&N Air Filter, 3/8\" Motordyne Plenum Spacer -2001 Toyota Tacoma SR5 Stepside 5-Speed 4X4 with siderails, Tonneau Cover, Bed Liner, and Rain Guards -1990 Nissan 240SX SE 5-speed with some minor mods
I think we may be branching out into a sub topic here: great sports figures (those who defined their positions). I agree about sweetness. I would add to him, Barry Sanders....that guy was a highlight reel waiting to happen....before the "Sportscenter" world really took off.
And, how about Jim Brown? I may be wrong about this and I'm sure someone with either validate or invalidate my statement (I"m too lazy to look it up right now), but I think he was the only back (with some minimum # of carries) who actually averaged 100+ yards per game and 5+ yards per carry. He was pretty cool back in the day too, parlaying his fame into a movie career (although, not an Academy Award winning career )
I was waiting for someone to agree with me with regards to Hugh Hefner.
With regards to Deon Sanders . . . I held my tongue at first, but man he is not cool. Nor is Michael Irvin for that matter.
When you mention an athlete who is cool, you have to take in what sets him apart from all the rests. Deon and Michael are or will be future hall of famers . . . but did they pave the way? Are they the greatest of all time? Did they establish themselves as THE man for the position? Were they fresh? Simply havin' style doesn't cut it. Alonzo Mourning has style, but he's not cool, debatable for sure, but you need many things to be considered cool. I think if Jerry Rice would of retired while he was on top, he would of been cool.
You gotta be original, fresh, long lasting, rebellious, anti-establishment, have some sort of street credibility or humble background, and become an icon so that everyone wants to be like you generations afterward.
Joe Namath predicted he would win super bowl III when the Jets were 14 point underdogs. Then he lived that playboy lifestyle and wore the furcoats, let his sideburns grow, and was the man in the No Fun League. Julius Irving aka Dr. J hands down took dunking and street basketball to the ABA and made it WOW. And come on, did you see his fro? He was the man. Muhammed Ali . . . like I need to say anything about Ali. These guys all had style, were rebels, were the best at one point or another and set the bar for others to follow. Merely having style doesn't cut it.
deion IS the cornerback position. there is NO single cornerback that QB's would fear throwing to, as much as they feared primetime. you said that he had to revolutionize the position, well, lets consider what the man did in football outside his natural position. he played WR in an era where no players would leave their positions. it was basically unheard of. now, you see all sorts of linebackers and defensive ends running for touchdowns. we all know he made watching punts fun. what more could you want out of him?? i think he even made his own music video! come on gamma.
michael irvin is cool because he's got great style, and when he tells the truth, ALWAYS. much like shannon sharpe, but shannon doesnt have the charisma that michael has. michael looks like such a friendly guy, and someone that you would not be afraid to approach. far in contrast to receivers such as T.O.
"You gotta be original, fresh, long lasting, rebellious, anti-establishment, have some sort of street credibility or humble background, and become an icon so that everyone wants to be like you generations afterward."
you just described deion 100%!!! except for the street cred part in that case, you just described allen iverson, and that guy was NEVER cool.
Joe namath was famed for his predictions, so what? should we hail the babe for poiting to the fences in the world series?? well you could, but that doesnt make him cool, it just makes him bold. VERY BOLD. Dr. J was an impressive dunker, but so are the harlem globetrotters, are they cool gamma? are they? because if thats what makes someone cool, then vince carter is the coolest man on earth!
You know who I think is cool, since this thread seams to be leaning towards athletes, #34 Walter Payton. aka Sweetness. 13 Seasons, 16,726 rushing yards (#2 next to Emmit) and he only missed 1 game.
Every Payton run started with the trademark first-step burst that carried him into the hole, where he could accelerate to daylight or explode into a tackler with aggressive, punishing force. Every Payton run ended with the 5-10, 200-pounder grinding, scrapping, fighting, battling for one more yard. All with grace . . . do you remember that little gazelle step he would take when he was open in mid-field. That was so cool. Right before he would lower the shoulder and punish you as you attempted to tackle him.
Need a block? Payton could deliver with the fierce drive of a fullback, a role he relished even more than his ball-carrying exploits. His powerful legs and sledgehammer arms were feared weapons, as was the delight he took in clearing a hole or protecting his quarterback.
Among his 77 100-yard performances was a record 275-yard effort in 1977 against the Vikings and his 21,264 combined rushing/receiving yards accounted for 125 touchdowns, 110 on the ground.
I used to love watching him play. I know, I'm a Raider Fan and the Raiders have had their share of Great running backs, but I still remember Walter Payton aka Sweetness. Very cool.
now you're just going out off topic. walter payton was a great player.
My friend and I were actually talking about how the Raiders are on a streak of having no consistent quality feature RB's.
It dates back to the days just after Marcus Allen and Bo Jackson from what we could remember. Charlie Garner was always more of a 3rd down/reciever type back.
Do we think Lamont Jordan can be the one to buck the trend and actually string together 2 or more years of consistent performance as the lone quality starting back in Raiderville?
Charlie Garner was more like the Marshall Faulk type RB, very versatile. When Rich Gannon was there, it was a dink and dunk offense, so he was catching lots and lots of passes on various downs. Tyrone Wheatley was the last one to rush for over 1,000 yards and that was in 2001.
I like Lamont Jordan. I had my doubts when he got shutout in Philly, but so did LT. I certainly think he can be that 1,000 yards/season type rusher, the question is, will Norv Turner utilize him after all? And can the offensive line stay healty and block for him?
I think we may be branching out into a sub topic here: great sports figures (those who defined their positions). I agree about sweetness. I would add to him, Barry Sanders....that guy was a highlight reel waiting to happen....before the "Sportscenter" world really took off.
And, how about Jim Brown? I may be wrong about this and I'm sure someone with either validate or invalidate my statement (I"m too lazy to look it up right now), but I think he was the only back (with some minimum # of carries) who actually averaged 100+ yards per game and 5+ yards per carry. He was pretty cool back in the day too, parlaying his fame into a movie career (although, not an Academy Award winning career )
Jim Brown was picked on because of his race, they dogged him because he was crossing the color line, and deemed unsuitable to play in a white man's league - so what did he do?
Lighten the load of his pads by not wearing much and become one of the greatest running backs of all time. He averaged 5.2 yards a carry and never missed a game. He later became an activist. He was cool.
[quote="SmokeG305"]
deion IS the cornerback position. there is NO single cornerback that QB's would fear throwing to, as much as they feared primetime. you said that he had to revolutionize the position, well, lets consider what the man did in football outside his natural position. he played WR in an era where no players would leave their positions. it was basically unheard of. now, you see all sorts of linebackers and defensive ends running for touchdowns. we all know he made watching punts fun. what more could you want out of him?? i think he even made his own music video! come on gamma.
Come on Smoke, learn your history. 2 words: Sammy Baugh http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00014080.html
One of the greatest quarterbacks+punters+defensive backs ever to play the game. I am not arguing that Deion wasn't a gifted athlete, he certainly was. Great speed, great threat and good return guy. Was he feared? Yes because he could intercept and had the quickness to take off, but he wasn't feared because he could hit. Jack Tatum was.
Sammy Baugh still holds the NFL punting record for highest average in a career (45.1 yards) and has the best (51.4 in 1940) and third best (48.7 in 1941) season marks. He was the first NFL player to intercept four passes in a game, a record he shares today. And he is the only player to lead the league in passing, punting and interceptions in the same season. This is when the footage was still in black and white with no physical therapist, helmets they currently have, modern medicine, etc. Might as well have been in the stone age. Once again, he still holds records.
michael irvin is cool because he's got great style, and when he tells the truth, ALWAYS. much like shannon sharpe, but shannon doesnt have the charisma that michael has. michael looks like such a friendly guy, and someone that you would not be afraid to approach. far in contrast to receivers such as T.O.
I'm not even going to waste my time on this one. If you think he's cool, then you think he's cool.
"You gotta be original, fresh, long lasting, rebellious, anti-establishment, have some sort of street credibility or humble background, and become an icon so that everyone wants to be like you generations afterward."
Joe namath was famed for his predictions, so what? should we hail the babe for poiting to the fences in the world series??
You should hail the Babe because only until recently are his records being broken, and even when they're broken, he's still in the top ten in every category. And when you mention the greatest baseball players, he is always 1 of 3 and I can't remember who the other 2 are. He played when Baseball was in its infancy and still made his mark. Joe Namath took an underdog team against a supposedly superior Baltimore team coached by Don Shula and QB'd by a hall of famer - Johnny Unitas, and guaranteed a win when nobody, and I mean nobody, thought they had a chance in hell except for the Jets. It is still one of the greatest upsets of all time and gave the AFL credibility as a pro football league. Context man, context.
Dr. J was an impressive dunker, but so are the harlem globetrotters, are they cool gamma? are they? because if thats what makes someone cool, then vince carter is the coolest man on earth! Dude, does anything exist for you prior to the 90's? Dr. J was the ABA. Without the ABA, the NBA would be boring. The NBA had great competitors, but you couldn't really dunk in the NBA. It was considered unsportsmanlike. The ABA revolutionized the game and played it the way we want to see it played. There would be no Michael Jordan without Dr. J. see http://espn.go.com/sportscentury/features/00014177.htmlsee
Excerpt from above article:
A final word on Erving comes from Magic president Pat Williams, who as 76ers GM brought Erving to Philadelphia: "You'd have to use words like electrifying, revolutionary. There's never been anybody quite like him, including Michael. If Julius was in his prime now, in this era of intense electronic media, he would be beyond comprehension. He would blow everybody away."
you think qb's feared sammy baugh just because he could hit?? no. which is why i said QB's feared not deion, not receivers you are making the case that sammy baugh was a good player. perhaps the best cb in the game. but that doesnt make him cool! deion has much more than skills on his side, he had charisma AND style. what does sammy baugh have? thats right, baugh.
the babe was the greatest player in the history of baseball, yes, he should be admired for that. but whats your point? how does that translate to making him cool? joe namath... ok, i'll give you him ONLY because he was the only crazy ass to wear a fur coat with the sticker still on it in the middle of the field AND sunglasses in a night game NOT because of his promise. that means nothing.
thank you for your history on the ABA, but what does that have anything to do with the thread at hand? seriously. how does the ABA make Dr. J cool??? which brings me back to my original point, just because he could dunk, doesnt make him cool NOW, if you were to say "eving was cool because he was able to revolutionize basketball as a whole" THEN, you would have a point.
you ask if anything exists for me prior to the 90's... of course... now in retrospect, does anything exists for you AFTER the 70's-80's (other than the raiders)
The thing I don't like about Deion, is that I feel he did most of the stuff that he did specifically for the purpose of trying to be cool.. and to attract attention... much like soo many of the current NFL athletes do with their dances and TD celebrations(mimicing eachother).
If you want to do something.. do it because you want to, not because you want to be thought of as cool for doing so. Doing things solely to promote your image makes you a slave to everyone who praises you for what you do.... not a very cool thing IMHO.
__________________ -2004.5 6MT G35 Coupe, Diamond Graphite/Graphite, Aero, Premium, Nav, Splash Guards, Aluminum Pedals, Z-Tube and K&N Air Filter, 3/8\" Motordyne Plenum Spacer -2001 Toyota Tacoma SR5 Stepside 5-Speed 4X4 with siderails, Tonneau Cover, Bed Liner, and Rain Guards -1990 Nissan 240SX SE 5-speed with some minor mods
Deion isn't worth a rat's petutie as a CB. He couldn't tackle my great grandmother and she's dead!!!
I'd run a sweep to him and run his ass over. After that no Deion. Hell I remember seeing Deion get stretched off the field after a tackle that a high school freshman would've made.
__________________
Now I'm just laid bad - G35Princess
R.I.P. MBC
in that case, you just described allen iverson, and that guy was NEVER cool.
