16 Kids!!! Come on!

[gammawolf]

Originally Posted by dholly

Whoa... interesting responses. What have they done justify such criticism? Who's to say how many kids are enough or too much? Go to China if you want to be told such things. That you don't necessarily agree with their lifestyle choices doesn't make them wrong, and they are not forcing their lifestyle on you (which is a whole lot more than can be said of the gay rights movement these days it seems). Jeez, I certainly can't fault the guy for wanting to park his car in the garage every night, so to speak, so long as he can provide for the bunch. And if you have a wife that actually loves sex after a decade or two of marriage, it's a blessing! This a.m., I saw an interview this family and was very impressed with the childrens behavior and their level of maturity. Even the 5 year olds were notably more articulate in their statements than several of the posts I've seen in this forum. They seemed quite well adjusted to me. Frankly, when I see a close-knit, happy family full of joy for life it makes me want to know some of their secrets, not criticize them. Why are people threatened by these things?

Traffic, congestion, pollution, over-crowded classrooms, and more vans or suvs on the freeway.

This lifestyle is not wrong, but who is to say what is? I'm more concerned with cause and effect. At least he does provide for his family as opposed to going on welfare. I do know of families who have more kids just so they can get a little extra from Uncle Sam. They too seem like a big happy bunch. However, I do not agree that the Gay movement is imposing their lifestyles on us. I have no yearning to be gay or experiment at all whatsover in the future. Just like this family does not make me yearn to have a big family whatsoever, no matter how blessed they seem.

[partyman66]

Having 16 kids is abnormal... that's all there is to it.

The fact that they are doing TV shows and being publicly analyzed by the media is proof enough of the fact that they aren't the norm.

Anything in the media is going to be criticized by someone at some point... because you can't please everyone.


I personally think they guy is crazy to have that many kids and also somewhat irresponsible in a sense... What if the dad dies next week? Who's going to earn the $600K a year that it costs to maintain his family?

His family then becomes a tremendous burden on his close relatives to take care of all those kids and also on the US Government which now has to pay for his family until each child reaches the age of 18 years old(even longer if each child decides to matriculate at a University and seek financial aid). I doubt any life insurance policy is generous enough to pay out some amount that would carry his entire army of a family for several years...... because that insurance company would never make any profit.

[Phelan]

THey're set money wise, he was in the state senate (I believe thats where he was) for several years.

I don't like it because of the way the guy uses the big family in his professional life. I live in the same area (Rogers is rougly 20-30 min away) so I get to hear all his political crap that he pulls his family into; rather than the rest of the country that only hears about him when his wife pops out another one. If he kept his personal life personal and quit doing things like saying (vote for me I've got X kids) it wouldn't bug me as much.

[GZire]

Dholly I am going to be extremely surprised if that guy is parking his car in the garage every night. In fact I'll bet it's more like he parks his car in the garage for one week every 10 months or so. Well possibly he's parking the car in the rear loading zone in 5 month stretches.

In any case I'd have to say it's extremely unusual to have this many kids, so much so that I do not think the children can be properly supervised by adults. I would hazard to guess that the mother is making the other children grow up early and take the responsibility of raising their siblings. The next item is how to financially support that many children since it's a sure thing that the mother has to stay at home to care for the new borns and will not be able to give too much time to the upkeep of the household.

Ordinarily I'd say it's up to them how many kids they have (dad is 1 of 12 kids and my mom is 1 of 6), but it's just too much. It seems they just get off having that many kids.

[dholly]

Originally Posted by partyman66

Having 16 kids is abnormal... that's all there is to it.

The fact that they are doing TV shows and being publicly analyzed by the media is proof enough of the fact that they aren't the norm.

Anything in the media is going to be criticized by someone at some point... because you can't please everyone.

So, lemme get this straight... you think if something isn't considered 'normal' by the masses, that's reason enough to criticize it? That funny 'cause, last I heard, a young kid owning a G35 wasn't exactly considered 'normal', eh?

I personally think they guy is crazy to have that many kids and also somewhat irresponsible in a sense... What if the dad dies next week? Who's going to earn the $600K a year that it costs to maintain his family?

His family then becomes a tremendous burden on his close relatives to take care of all those kids and also on the US Government which now has to pay for his family until each child reaches the age of 18 years old(even longer if each child decides to matriculate at a University and seek financial aid). I doubt any life insurance policy is generous enough to pay out some amount that would carry his entire army of a family for several years...... because that insurance company would never make any profit.

You have made a tremendous number of assumptions in an attempt to justify your comment. In so much as this family appears to be doing just fine financially, I don't find it a such terrible stretch to think they may recognize a need for effective financial and estate planning. They certainly have the incentive so I guessing this senatorial candidate also have the smarts to actually implement. They certainly don't look the part of someone unwilling to take control of their own destiny. Your comment about insurance co's shows your ignorance. It makes absolutely no difference how many beneficiaries you name on a policy, death benefits are simply a function of the insured's risk class and the premium paid. One could be on their deathbed and still be insurable.

[dholly]

Originally Posted by gammawolf

Traffic, congestion, pollution, over-crowded classrooms, and more vans or suvs on the freeway.

Um, from a few more kids than 'average'?? Riiight.

This lifestyle is not wrong, but who is to say what is? I'm more concerned with cause and effect. At least he does provide for his family as opposed to going on welfare. I do know of families who have more kids just so they can get a little extra from Uncle Sam. They too seem like a big happy bunch.

I am not talking about the deadbeat scum social program abusers (whom I also abhor supporting at the expense of my own children), I am simply talking about this family.

However, I do not agree that the Gay movement is imposing their lifestyles on us. I have no yearning to be gay or experiment at all whatsover in the future. Just like this family does not make me yearn to have a big family whatsoever, no matter how blessed they seem.

Call it what you will, but I consider attempting to mainstream or normalize something that has up to that time been consided shall we simply say, less than normal, imposing. As an example, just try to watch primetime TV with your young kids these days...

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ENUF!!

[dholly]

Originally Posted by GZire

Dholly I am going to be extremely surprised if that guy is parking his car in the garage every night. In fact I'll bet it's more like he parks his car in the garage for one week every 10 months or so. Well possibly he's parking the car in the rear loading zone in 5 month stretches.

Speaking from experience, the vast majority of women enjoy sex right thru their ninth month!

[gammawolf]

Originally Posted by dholly

ENUF!!

Until you put it up on the screen for discussion, I hadn't heard about 3/4's of these shows. If you are worried about gay media, fine, I'm more worried about Hollywood giving us so much crap to watch. Now I'm jealous. You know how hard it is for a Latino to get on tv and not be portrayed as the cook, servant, gangster, or mechanic? Damnn, so this is what you have to do to get on tv.

Gay theme or not. Stay away from too much TV it's bad for your health.

[partyman66]

Originally Posted by dholly

Speaking of making assumptions...
I'm not a 'young kid'.... Unless 28 seems like that to you(relatively speaking). And even if I was a 'young kid', having a real nice car(even if it was a Ferrari) wouldn't be anything that corrupts the balance of the world or really affects anyone else(unless a young kid were to drive it irresponsibly fast and kill/seriously injure someone in the process). I also never said that I criticize him for the reason that his life choices aren't considered normal by the masses. I'm old enough and mature enough to make my own decisions without the necessity of public influence to pursuade my emotions/beliefs.... and I'm entitled to my own opinions on the situation. I feel that he's bathing in the limelight and exposing his whole family to ridicule by the entire nation by going on all these TV shows and "whoring" his family out to the media. I don't applaud that, and I think that if he was having a lot of kids just because he wanted to out of purely noble goals... he wouldn't be seeking such public attention focused on his kids and subjecting his family(the younger kids mainly) to all of the potential complications that go along with that. I mean, I know the guy's a politician and that introduces his family to some degree of public visibility, but I've never even heard of this guy until he used his kids to get him onto the front pages of all the current media events. Any attention that they might have already had has been magnified to an immeasureable extent now.

As far as insurance goes... I just said that he isn't going to find an insurance policy that will pay out enough to support his family, so that their life expenses do not become a burden on the government-funded aid systems. I'm sure that if he payed $200K a year for a policy, he might have one that would pay out sufficient funds to maintain his family well beyond his demise... but then it's highly unlikely that he could afford to support his family while he was alive with such an expensive policy to pay for.

I find your "ignorance" comment to be unnecessarily offensive and personel, given the relatively mild and public-domain scope of this threads subject matter.

You're a smart guy.... read my posts a little closer and stop trying to put words in my mouth.

[GZire]

Dholly.................kinky man!

[oScottio]

partyman, ur just jealous. i know u want a mullet too, just do it man. oh..and, when are u gonna move out to cali? on ur drive over here, u can stop by utah and pick up a couple wives urself =) they love having lots of kids too..WoOooo HOoooooOo

[dholly]

partyman66-

You said, "Having 16 kids is abnormal... that's all there is to it." Well, since we all agree who's to say what's 'normal' or not, maybe using a less subjective word like 'unusual' makes sense. Hell, I don't think there's any question 16 kids is unusual. And it's not likely to become normal in the sense that it happens so frequently as to no longer be seen as unusual. But so what if having 16 kids is simply unusual. It's no secret there are plenty of young kids in this forum driving a nice, new G, some as young as 18yo. Doesn't make that a bad thing either, just unusual. BTW, I don't consider 28 to be a 'kid' but, in measuring one's lifetime, I would hope it's still considered young. And why are you assuming I was referring to you anyway!? Do you see me mention your name somewhere? I did read your posts and I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, so don't get yer panties in a bunch. Like I already said, I'm just trying to understand why you called these people "sick" and "irresponsible" when they do, in fact, appear quite responsible, capable and loving.

Personally I didn't see anything to give the impression these parents went running for national attention. What makes you think that... simply because they agreed to an interview, something you can bet the big media outlets all hounded them for? I don't know whether it is fair to say these parents are commercializing or "whoring" their family. I mean, who the hell has ever even heard of these people before now? Compared to that other family that had quints(?) and allowed a camera to follow them around every day for about 5 years in exchange for financial gain (ie., house, vans, college savings accounts, etc.), these people don't seem to be using or taking advantage of their circumstances for financial or material gain. Now Phelan has a unique perspective on his local media, but saying the father 'used' his kids in an attempt to further his career? I should think a family that size would be mighty hard to keep out of the spotlight during a run for public office. If I had to guess, I bet the media made more of it than the father.

But hey, what do I know? Opinions are like ass cracks; everybody has one. And, if you were offended somehow by what I said, well sorrrry. Everbody is ignorant about one thing or another. Ignorant is not a bad word, and if you understand the distinction between ignorance and stupidity you wouldn't be offended. I'm not calling you stupid, but I am saying the characterization of insurance in your example is so totally wrong that you must be uninformed. You said "if he payed $200K a year for a policy, he might have one that would pay out sufficient funds to maintain his family well beyond his demise... but then it's highly unlikely that he could afford to support his family while he was alive with such an expensive policy to pay for." Clear enough, but you never even say how much death benefit you think he needs... $1mil, $3mil, $5mil? FYI, a simple 15yr level premium term policy for a 40yo non-smoker (ok, I DID assume that!) in AK costs about $180/mo, or $2200/yr, for a $5,000,000 death benefit. I would expect $5mil to be more than sufficient to support his family for quite some time even if he left no other assets. I'll even go out on a limb and assume a guy making $600k/yr could afford a $180/mo. premium.

[SmokeG305]

my grandparents from my mom's side had 14 children...


2 of them passed away

RIP

and 12 are remaining. i actually think it's great, i love having a big family

[Navy ECMO]

Originally Posted by dholly

Call it what you will, but I consider attempting to mainstream or normalize something that has up to that time been consided shall we simply say, less than normal, imposing. As an example, just try to watch primetime TV with your young kids these days...

Why do people feel so threatened by homosexuality? They are mainstreaming and normalizing homosexuality because there's no reason not to. The psychiatric commnunity realized this years ago when they removed homosexuality from the DSM-IV (the bible for describing and diagnosing psychological and behavior disorders). So what if your kid watches a show that has a gay person in it? Are you worried that it might somehow make them gay later in life? That's not how it works. You are either born gay or you are not. I could live in an entire city of nothing but gay people and it would not make me any more gay than I am now, which is not gay at all.

I don't like the way fundamentalist Christians are always trying to force their morals and religion on me and everyone else in the country. Does this mean we should shut them down?