6MT.net Infiniti G35/G37/GTR Community

**Chaz** · 06-24-2003, 08:39 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">quote:
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PC's out-perform MACS on EVERY LEVEL.
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BS. How can you even say that when you've never used a Mac??? Show me any video camera or digital camera you can hook up to a PC without having to load a driver. On a Mac, you plug it in via firewire or USB and it works, period. Another example, try to go download some software and see what your options are: Do you need the Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP version or the Mac version that works on all Macs?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Uuhhh don't start posting stuff Lead you are not familiar with either my friend! Come over to my apartment and I will show you my Digital Fujitsu camera I have that you just plug and play with USB. I have NEVER installed ANY driver for it on my PC yet.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">quote:
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All independent Benchmarks indicate you're wrong.
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I'll find you several that will prove you wrong. Like I said in my post to Chaz, most "independent" benchmarks are done by PC users that don't know how to use a Mac.
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PLEASE PLEASE LEAD prove me wrong here??? I went to at least 3 or 4 MAC sites and TRIED to find benchmark tests that prove me wrong. I STILL CAN'T FIND ANY...Oh so IRONIC don't you think Lead...I AM STILL WAITING???? [

]

Sorry Lead but from everything I have read I DON'T HAVE TO USE A MAC to know a PC out-performs it. I have read many many benchmark tests to prove it and that has done enough to sell me. But bottom line is we are arguing apples and oranges here. Your MAC is great for what you do and you swear by it...I will do the same with my PC and both accomplish what we want, when we want, and how we want! [

]

'03 G35 Sedan.

lead_foot · 06-24-2003, 09:57 AM

Good point Chaz, and I totally agree. The only thing you're still not getting is that the machine in question is BRAND NEW. You won't find any benchmarks other than the ones on Apples site since they are the only ones that have one.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

Yes both systems are good capable systems that can do most everything and the gap between the two closes daily, the only point I was trying to make is that exactly. A lot of people think Macs are for Graphics and that's it. They've come a long way, and people just need to be made aware that they can be used for everything, just like a PC. Anyone that doesn't believe me on this I can try and disprove in a professional manner. This isn't some kind of pissing contest about what machine is the best, I'm just trying to open some eyes and minds.

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**Chaz** · 06-24-2003, 10:08 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lead_foot

Good point Chaz, and I totally agree. The only thing you're still not getting is that the machine in question is BRAND NEW. You won't find any benchmarks other than the ones on Apples site since they are the only ones that have one.

http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

Yes both systems are good capable systems that can do most everything and the gap between the two closes daily, the only point I was trying to make is that exactly. A lot of people think Macs are for Graphics and that's it. They've come a long way, and people just need to be made aware that they can be used for everything, just like a PC. Anyone that doesn't believe me on this I can try and disprove in a professional manner. This isn't some kind of pissing contest about what machine is the best, I'm just trying to open some eyes and minds.
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I hear ya Lead...and you continue your valiant effort at opening others' minds to the MAC. hehe [

] I am sure it is a great computer, just not for me!

I can build a much faster, more reliable comp than most MAC's for the PRICE.

Oh and Lead were you able to find any benchmark tests from the past decade stating MAC's being faster and out-performing PC's??? I am still looking...hehe [

]

'03 G35 Sedan.

lead_foot · 06-24-2003, 10:18 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chaz

Oh and Lead were you able to find any benchmark tests from the past decade stating MAC's being faster and out-performing PC's??? I am still looking...hehe [

]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry, not looking. Let's wait for the new tests since anything you or I might find is now outdated. [

**Chaz** · 06-24-2003, 10:22 AM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by lead_foot

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Chaz

Oh and Lead were you able to find any benchmark tests from the past decade stating MAC's being faster and out-performing PC's??? I am still looking...hehe [

]
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">
Sorry, not looking. Let's wait for the new tests since anything you or I might find is now outdated. [

]
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OH OK Lead...sounds good. We will wait on the new tests since all the previous ones testing the 2.0Ghz against the G4 top dawg prove PC's on top! hehe [boxing]

Oh and what happened to your stros last night man? It was a great game in the 9th.

'03 G35 Sedan.

Sirmilton · 06-24-2003, 10:33 AM

Ok guys, I did a lot of searching, alot of reading, and very little work, so I have to stop finding links for you.

The information that I have compiled here is not exhaustive, and may not reflect my opinions, however it does point out... after you read it all... that this is an age old battle and in the end if we all love our cars we can still be friends. To each their own... I will have my 3 PC's and buy a Mac as well.

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Benchmark Showdown -- Mac vs. PC - http://www.techtv.com/products/hardware/story/0,23008,3339307,00.html

The dark side of benchmarking computers is that anyone can put together a scenario in which one computer is shown to dominate another -- aka selective benchmarking. Only with well-written and equally optimized applications for differing platforms can one hope to come away with any meaningful results.

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Benefits of Mac Ownership
http://www.techtv.com/callforhelp/fe...339930,00.html

PCs are Better
http://www.techtv.com/callforhelp/fe...339933,00.html

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Mac vs. PC III: Mac Slaughtered Again
http://www.digitalvideoediting.com/c...macvspciii.htm

related:

Adobe 'Prefers' Customers to Use PCs Instead of Macs“Adobe put a page up (named 'pcpreferred.html') stating that the PC is preferred to run Adobe products. Adobe, along with Quark and Macromedia, are the long standing allies to Apple, offering the most important products that literally drive Mac sales in the Pro market. For historical reasons mostly, it is now of surprise to see Adobe openly verifying and backing up Digital Producer Magazine's benchmarks and recommending PCs instead of Macs to their customers (even if PCs have indeed overtake Macs speed-wise the last 1-2 years). This is a blow for Apple, sales and marketing-wise and we will wait for a reaction from Apple towards Adobe.” - http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=3111

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very interesting and I learned the most from this (does not account for G5)
Do not read this column!
http://macnet2.com/more.php?id=338_0_1_0

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Much to celebrate today, and much to look forward to
http://macnet2.com/more.php?id=358_0_1_0

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So there you have it, the benchmarks say the newest multithreading P4 Dell kicks ass, but the new G5 has some promise... in the end it depends what you are comfortable with and which OS has the features you want and are willing to pay for.

AIM: Sirmilton3
MSN: Sirmilton22@hotmail.com

2000 Civic SiR | Vogue Silver Metallic | ITR Leather | RH EVO C2's | VTEC

Sirmilton · 06-24-2003, 11:46 AM

ok... I may have turned myslef into Mac Hater!!!

I have always liked AMD chips over Intel, and I still praise my Gen1 Athlon processor running a sweet 750MHz which was always faster than my roomate's P3-750. So I think as much as I love the Mac, I may just go out and get me a new Opteron (if I can)

here are the links, read em , weap if you love Mac, shout for joy if you are a PC person, I will do neither.

http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1296
http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.c...id=1296&page=2

AIM: Sirmilton3
MSN: Sirmilton22@hotmail.com

2000 Civic SiR | Vogue Silver Metallic | ITR Leather | RH EVO C2's | VTEC

lead_foot · 06-24-2003, 11:55 AM

Sorry Milt, but let me show you how clueless these guys are.

They list 3 different Apple processors:
Apple 3Ghz Xeon
Apple 3Ghz P4
G5 2Ghz
Where did they come up with these? You can't trust a word these guys are saying when they're making up processors. Apple Xeon, Apple P4, that cracks me up. [lol]

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Sirmilton · 06-24-2003, 12:02 PM

I thought that at first too, but they are talking about Apple's test computers for benchmarking... so what it means is, Apple Xeon was the Xeon computer Apple used in its benchmarking test, etc

AIM: Sirmilton3
MSN: Sirmilton22@hotmail.com

2000 Civic SiR | Vogue Silver Metallic | ITR Leather | RH EVO C2's | VTEC

Semi On · 06-24-2003, 12:14 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">
I beg to differ that you're a so-called independent. What machine are you posting from?
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

At the moment? A Sun SPARC. Regardless, not all of us have a religious connection to our screw drivers. Computers are nothing more than tools despite whatever zeal you may feel toward your Mac. Macs are fantastic in some applications, lousy in others, just like a PC. Both are useful.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Another general statement made by someone who's not familiar with the Mac platform. <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I have product in this new machine. I deal directly with Apple routinely. I have a far better understanding of their platform than you do.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">If you think Macs are more expensive, prove it to me. Find me a Windows machine from a major vendor that comes with everything the top of the line Mac comes with and show me your price difference.
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That's a fairly trivial task that even Apple concedes and was done extensively in the discussion thread on Ars. They have no interest in competing on price which they've stated constantly. They're providing a machine for a niche market that's willing to pay a premium for improved integration and aesthetics. That's a tough sell to a Financing department in corporate America.

And another thing:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">that comes with everything the top of the line Mac comes with <hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

There aren't many IT departments that would choose such a machine for their business people making this statement totally bizarre in the context of your argument.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">It would be an anecdote if it was just me that made this observation.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

False. It's still an anecdote. Here's a Dictionary.com reference for your aide:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=anecdote

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'll find you several that will prove you wrong. Like I said in my post to Chaz, most "independent" benchmarks are done by PC users that don't know how to use a Mac.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Prove it.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Every one of them. I've been using PCs since 95 and always run into the same problems. I know I'm not the only one since I read about this all the time. Blue screen of death ring a bell?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

You didn't answer my question. I had horrible reliability on my OS8 machine as well. Anecdotes are not data.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Not sure where you're going, but I've never been to a site where I can address their audience<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

www.anandtech.com
www.hardocp.com
www.arstechnica.com
www.tech-report.com
www.slashdot.org

Those are the biggies.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That's ironic since this is a quote from their homepage:
"Performance is competitive with Dual Xeon Dell PC, lots of SPEC, Mathematica, Photoshop tests put the new top-end machine in front."<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

A true statement.

The problem is that their gaming specs are totally BS, which is why Caesar didn't mention them and the while their Spec scores come out ahead, they did so using gcc to compile. No one uses gcc because it sucks at compiling x86 code. Real SPEC scores are quite a bit different. In truth, I'd expect to see Apple's scores a bit better with a pared down Power4.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">All of these have been well received and adapted, but none as fast and as widely as Flash.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bullshit.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">So if it were up to you, the internet would be all black text on white backgrounds right?<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

An unjustified and totally worthless comment that makes no sense in the context of the quote to which you were responding.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I'll partially agree with you here since I know the tool in the wrong hands can create some really ugly crap, but that's why design should be left to the designers.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I've only ever seen one good use for Flash in my life (Little Ninjai which I recommend everyone check out). This isn't enough to make up for the buggy and convoluted nature of the tool.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">That's shocking since this machine was just announced today and won't even be released until September, so I doubt every non-Apple source has one to test.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I'm going to requote my own statement and bold the part you so clearly missed:

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">I KNOW that their figures are wrong because every non-Apple source for the hardware they tested has found significantly better performance on the x86 side.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Read that once more in case you missed it again.

I'm not addressing the figures for Apple's new hardware at all. What I'm calling bullshit are several of their figures for Intel hardware that have been proven to be totally wrong and not indicative of their performance at all.

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">quote:
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I want to run Lasi on the Mac. How about PSpice? MathCAD? Shit, Battlefield 1942?
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Send me any of these and I'll give you a little demo.
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Why on earth would one consider a machine that has to do its primary function in emulation? If its job is EE tools, it would be idiotic to buy a machine not capable of using those tools natively over one that is simply because you have some fervent attachment to the Mac OS.

Semi On · 06-24-2003, 12:19 PM

Sirmilton,

Some more links you may find interesting, all religion aside:
http://www.arstechnica.com/cpu/1q00/.../g4vsk7-1.html
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/01q2/p4an...4andg4e-1.html
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/01q4/p4an...andg4e2-1.html
http://arstechnica.com/paedia/h/hype...reading-1.html
http://arstechnica.com/wankerdesk/3q02/powerpc.html
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/02q2/ppc970/ppc970-1.html
http://arstechnica.com/cpu/03q1/ppc970/ppc970-0.html

This one should be especially helpful with regard to your cache confusion:
http://arstechnica.com/paedia/c/caching/caching-1.html

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">in the end it depends what you are comfortable with and which OS has the features you want and are willing to pay for.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Bingo!

Regards,
Semi

Sirmilton · 06-24-2003, 12:52 PM

<blockquote id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote">Originally posted by Semi On

I've only ever seen one good use for Flash in my life (Little Ninjai which I recommend everyone check out). This isn't enough to make up for the buggy and convoluted nature of the tool.
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

I want to address this one piece of information. Flash can be a very useful too, but like many other things on the Internet it has been misused so many times that few people know how to truly exploit it. I work for an IT research company in the web department, and I have seen two very good web applications that use flash as their visual premise. One such tool reads from a PHP parsed XML file to populate a dynamic SWF. This is extremely useful, considering the graphical representation's complexity. If we were to correct a jpeg image with an image map or code the HTML as often as this swf gets repopulated we would never stop working on this one project. No more of the stupid ball bouncing or flying text, but dynamic visual representation. That is the true use for flash.

AIM: Sirmilton3
MSN: Sirmilton22@hotmail.com

2000 Civic SiR | Vogue Silver Metallic | ITR Leather | RH EVO C2's | VTEC

Semi On · 06-24-2003, 12:54 PM

That actually sounds pretty cool, Sirmilton.

lead_foot · 06-24-2003, 01:07 PM

Thanks Semi, all points heard and although not agreed with, heard none-the-less, except for the "bullshit" and the "prove it" because I could say the same to you.

We can agree to disagree, and the bottom line is you use what you're comfortable with. Luckily nobody is forced to buy a certain platform (although Bill Gates might not like it). Like I said before, I'm just tired of people saying the Mac is an inferior system when they have no idea what they're talking about.

'03 AT Sedan | Brilliant Silver | Willow Leather | Sport | Premium | Aerokit w/Spoiler | Nav

Sirmilton · 06-24-2003, 01:09 PM

Semi, it is very very cool, and works so flawlessly. I only hope that I will be able to build something as cool and useful as that.

AIM: Sirmilton3
MSN: Sirmilton22@hotmail.com

2000 Civic SiR | Vogue Silver Metallic | ITR Leather | RH EVO C2's | VTEC