j/k it's been said before that asthetics is subjective, but unlike what you've stated material objects can be quantified. By the way, are you a shrink?
And you didn't even mention your Carerra.
__________________ Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
I agree with the aesthetics statement, but for the material object quantification, I still feel that most of the posts do not have many facts behind them to make such blanket statements. Mind you, this could be my own ignorance as well, as not even I know if the 335i is "better" then the G37 as I am not an engineer that has dove deeply into either car in terms of the production process and research and development of the vehicle.
I view myself as an enthusiast when it comes to vehicles. I've read the Motor Trend "The King is Dead" article, and then seen the opposite from different magazines (where the 335i is better). To me, this is a clear indication of either confusion in the market, or there is such a small line between better/worst on these two vehicles that even the market has not really decided who the true winner is...it just feels extremely subjective to me.
And no, I am not a shrink . I am an executive at an accounting software installation firm based in Minnesota...you could say I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to vehicles .
As for the Porsche...it's a great car. It handles better than any other car I have ever driven, but at the same time, I really don't need that for street driving. At the track, I have heard that they are amazing vehicles. I do not go to the track though...and everyone that I know get's the car as a "class" symbol. I mean, really, how much more does 50 thousand dollars get you in refinement? G37 = 45k fully loaded, 911 = 100+K fully loaded. Driving both cars, I could _never_ say that the Porsche is twice the car of the G. And dare I say it; I really feel that the interior design and balance of the G is _better_ than that of the 911. Even my girlfriend prefers the G over the Porsche.
Technology-wise, the Porsche is way behind the G37, but who really needs a Bluetooth phone with the Porsche when its intent is to be a status symbol or a track car?
I'm really not trying to be negative on the car...as I love it for the "classy" intent that it has, but it's an entirely different equation when I start looking at cars above the 20K mark, and then once again above the 100k mark, and continually after that...
To top things off, my dream car has always been the Aston Martin Vanquish. Why? Because it _looks_ beautiful. The performance is not great, the technology is lacking, but it still sells at such a high cost (status symbol). I mean, do you really think that a "hand-made" vehicle is better than that of a production processed vehicle? And is it 5 times "better" in quality and craftsmanship?
My personal opinion regarding this entire thread is that there are a few key areas that can be quantified (0 to 60 times, technical HP specifications, et cetera) but when we start looking at build quality, exterior, reliability, paint quality, finish quality, and leg room we do not have all of the facts required to really make accurate statements. Maybe the G37 was designed for a 6’0” person while the 335i was designed for a 6’2” person…does that make it better (for some yes, for others no). How many coats of paint are on the G vs. the 335i? How do we know the reliability of a vehicle upon release to the general public and make a statement assuming that one vehicle will be better than the other?
I know that you can keep on going to an extreme degree, and that’s not what I’m trying to do, but what I am trying to state is that I just feel that there is so much “grey” when it comes to these cars that either choice is a win for the consumer.
And I also agree that I look way too much into this…it’s just my nature .
I agree with the aesthetics statement, but for the material object quantification, I still feel that most of the posts do not have many facts behind them to make such blanket statements. Mind you, this could be my own ignorance as well, as not even I know if the 335i is "better" then the G37 as I am not an engineer that has dove deeply into either car in terms of the production process and research and development of the vehicle.
I view myself as an enthusiast when it comes to vehicles. I've read the Motor Trend "The King is Dead" article, and then seen the opposite from different magazines (where the 335i is better). To me, this is a clear indication of either confusion in the market, or there is such a small line between better/worst on these two vehicles that even the market has not really decided who the true winner is...it just feels extremely subjective to me.
And no, I am not a shrink . I am an executive at an accounting software installation firm based in Minnesota...you could say I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to vehicles .
As for the Porsche...it's a great car. It handles better than any other car I have ever driven, but at the same time, I really don't need that for street driving. At the track, I have heard that they are amazing vehicles. I do not go to the track though...and everyone that I know get's the car as a "class" symbol. I mean, really, how much more does 50 thousand dollars get you in refinement? G37 = 45k fully loaded, 911 = 100+K fully loaded. Driving both cars, I could _never_ say that the Porsche is twice the car of the G. And dare I say it; I really feel that the interior design and balance of the G is _better_ than that of the 911. Even my girlfriend prefers the G over the Porsche.
Technology-wise, the Porsche is way behind the G37, but who really needs a Bluetooth phone with the Porsche when its intent is to be a status symbol or a track car?
I'm really not trying to be negative on the car...as I love it for the "classy" intent that it has, but it's an entirely different equation when I start looking at cars above the 20K mark, and then once again above the 100k mark, and continually after that...
To top things off, my dream car has always been the Aston Martin Vanquish. Why? Because it _looks_ beautiful. The performance is not great, the technology is lacking, but it still sells at such a high cost (status symbol). I mean, do you really think that a "hand-made" vehicle is better than that of a production processed vehicle? And is it 5 times "better" in quality and craftsmanship?
My personal opinion regarding this entire thread is that there are a few key areas that can be quantified (0 to 60 times, technical HP specifications, et cetera) but when we start looking at build quality, exterior, reliability, paint quality, finish quality, and leg room we do not have all of the facts required to really make accurate statements. Maybe the G37 was designed for a 6’0” person while the 335i was designed for a 6’2” person…does that make it better (for some yes, for others no). How many coats of paint are on the G vs. the 335i? How do we know the reliability of a vehicle upon release to the general public and make a statement assuming that one vehicle will be better than the other?
I know that you can keep on going to an extreme degree, and that’s not what I’m trying to do, but what I am trying to state is that I just feel that there is so much “grey” when it comes to these cars that either choice is a win for the consumer.
And I also agree that I look way too much into this…it’s just my nature .
Hey Scott,
Sorry if my comment seemed to be argumentative. That was not my intention. Actually, I pretty much agree with your statements. The reason why debates of this nature never really get resolved is because it's so heavily weighed in subjectivity. Most cars are judged on "feel" rather than something that can be quantified. The reason I asked if you were a shrink is because a girlfriend of mine is a psychiatrist and she works for a marketing firm that quantifies asthetics. You can imagine we get into it often when I run into her about dubiousness of that subject matter. I also agree with you that when you compare a 50K vehicle to one that's 100k, you don't necessarily get 50k more car. I personally think that value is inversely correlated and that as you spend more money you get less car, but that's my personal view and I'm sure there are proponents who'll argue otherwise. I too don't like blanket statements thrown around without much thought and think it happens much too often on the net.
Good stuff Scott, welcome to the forum and congrats on the nice cars you've aquired. Don't mind some of the weird dudes on here they're not all that bad. Just make sure to check your wallet often and clinch your ass cheeks if you see Neft or ganamyde coming.
__________________ Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
No need to apologize at all...I didn't feel as if you were being argumentative and I just wanted to drill into the statement a bit more just to clarify . I'm totally fine with being wrong, I just want to know if there are other people that feel the same way or if I'm just way off base .
Thanks for the welcome as well...with over 5000+ posts, I can tell that you are fairly active in the forum and you're the last guy I want to frustrate .
I've read the Motor Trend "The King is Dead" article, and then seen the opposite from different magazines (where the 335i is better). To me, this is a clear indication of either confusion in the market, or there is such a small line between better/worst on these two vehicles that even the market has not really decided who the true winner is...it just feels extremely subjective to me.
I disagree. First, I am not a fan of BMW's, so, please do not take this as praise of BMW. But, the only magazine which has preferred the G37 to the 335i is Motor Trend. And, they had two reasons for their decision. One was the lack of an oil cooler on the automatic sport model. Well, that was changed with March 2007 production when the oil cooler was made standard equipment on the automatic sport (it had always been standard on the 6MT sport). Also, BMW would retrofit it at no cost if a customer wanted. So, this reason was really a flimsy excuse. Two, was the (anticipated) price differential. When the G37 pricing was announced and the car ran a $1,000 more than Motor Trend anticipated, this would appear to diminish the strength of the pricing argument.
After looking deeper in Motor Trend's reasons, neither is a very strong reason. Most of the other magazines recognized this and came to a different conclusion.
Personally, I do not care. I do not want a BMW and I expect to be very happy with my G37 when it arrives.
I'm curious on why Motor Trend decided to go down this route without considering the oil cooler option, as the publish date was August 2007. Why was this not even mentioned in the article? Possible sloppy journalism/research? I've also "heard through the grape vine" from other forums that "there goes Motor Trend again"...does that mean that they have a history of making unsupported statements?
As for price...when I configure a 335i Coupe to match that of the G37, the pricing comes to around $55,195.00. Configuring the G37 comes to around $44,054.00 for all options (I've done this based upon their web site configurator at both companies). There's a ten thousand dollar difference in price with the fully loaded models (excluding automatic transmission and paddle shifters on BMW). If you then take both of these and amortize them for 48 months at a 6.25% interest rate (compounded monthly), you're looking at $62,524.32 for the BMW and $49,904.16 for the Infiniti. This brings you to a $12,600.00 difference at the end of 4 years of payments.
If you had $12,600.00 to dump into the Infiniti G37 (as you saved this much by _not_ going for the 335i), would you have a "better" vehicle? Would it be more track worthy? Would a writer of a motorist enthusiast magazine choose it above the BMW?
Is a .3 second (at least stated technically) 0 to 60 time worth $12k? Is there $12k refinement in the interior and entire package of the BMW? Or is it just that "feel good" that a person get's when they purchase something that they _feel_ is the best?
Then again...is a 0 to 60 of 2.5 seconds worth 1.7 million?
Also - congratulations on your G37...I'm sure you'll absolutely love it, as I can't get enough of mine .
As for price...when I configure a 335i Coupe to match that of the G37, the pricing comes to around $55,195.00. Configuring the G37 comes to around $44,054.00 for all options (I've done this based upon their web site configurator at both companies). There's a ten thousand dollar difference in price with the fully loaded models (excluding automatic transmission and paddle shifters on BMW). If you then take both of these and amortize them for 48 months at a 6.25% interest rate (compounded monthly), you're looking at $62,524.32 for the BMW and $49,904.16 for the Infiniti. This brings you to a $12,600.00 difference at the end of 4 years of payments.
A couple of "real world" points. According to BMW, almost no one buys a fully optioned 335i, like you configured one. The average 335i includes premium, sport and maybe a radio/ipod option. So, you are looking at $46,000 for such a BMW and $40,000 for the equivalent G37. But, you can buy that BMW for $44,000 (or $43,000 if you are good) and the G37 will still cost you $40,000. In the real world for the way most cars are equipped, the difference is about $4,000, not $10,000. (Yes, while most of the forum posters like to buy fully loaded G37's, they are the exception and not the rule.)
Second point is that BMW Finance has long offered some of the best lease and finance rates in the industry. BMW Finance uses rates so attractive, there is almost a financial disincentive to pay cash. The per month costs of these two cars is almost identical. For most people, it ends up costing them $20 - $50 more a month to get into a BMW. That is one reason why BMW moves (I can't say sells because they lease an awful lot of cars) as many cars as they do. People (not "car" people) find out they can get into a BMW with all that implies for a few dollars more a month than whatever else they were considering.
Is the Infiniti G37 REALLY better than the BMW 335? 001 is in Seattle and he intends to find out. - AutoSpies Auto News
Maybe this (PDF) will help you decide ... IMO the G37 has become a bit of a porker at just under 3800 lbs; at least 300 lbs more than the G35, does that make up for the extra power?
Maybe this (PDF) will help you decide ... IMO the G37 has become a bit of a porker at just under 3800 lbs; at least 300 lbs more than the G35, does that make up for the extra power?
Well that's the reason all the mags that have reviewed it have said the performance numbers are pretty much the same as the G35. But in the 37's defense, they do state that the refinement level, feel, quality all have gone way above teh 35's.
__________________ Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
Originally Posted by mantisG35
once you drive a 335i with procede or even without it you will have interest in it.
G37's interior and >> 335
yeah no doubt about it
335 exterior > G37
personal opinion, but i think that's nuts.
335 build quality >>>>> G37
i'd agree... maybe... G37 isn't even out yet. but yeah
335 performance > 335... at least slightly, but 335 is easier, cleaner, and much cheaper to mod to get even greater performance
yeah definitely.
335 as a chick magnet >>>>>>> G37 at least in my town (in the south they might be the same, neither is a truck, so..)
i don't know about that... probably depends on the girl you are trying to get.. maybe a rich snob would just wanna see the BMW logo... but a girl with a good head, i think would choose the G... at least girls around here are much more impressed with my coupe than any of the boring Bimmers.
G37 reliability after its first year will probably be >>>> 335
G37 price is almost like 335 so an infiniti is not worth it anymore
no, not really
G37 navigation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 335 idrive (yuck. im yet to see it get me directions somewhere before i actually get there physically)
335 paint quality >>>>>>> G37
probably...
335 finish quality is probably > G37
335 leg room, head room, trunk space, back seat room >>>>>> G37
it's a SPORTS COUPE... why should you care about that stuff.. that just proves why the 335 is behind.. with it's buig ugly windows.. it's doesnt look like a sports coupe....
Overall i think engineers did a better job on 335 vs. G37 especially when it comes to weight, performance, engine output, rwhp and torque, etc....
maybe on paper... but there is much more to these cars than Car & Driver 1/4 mile times.
Originally Posted by mantisG35
once you drive a 335i with procede or even without it you will have interest in it.
G37's interior and >> 335
yeah no doubt about it
335 exterior > G37
personal opinion, but i think that's nuts.
335 build quality >>>>> G37
i'd agree... maybe... G37 isn't even out yet. but yeah
335 performance > 335... at least slightly, but 335 is easier, cleaner, and much cheaper to mod to get even greater performance
yeah definitely.
335 as a chick magnet >>>>>>> G37 at least in my town (in the south they might be the same, neither is a truck, so..)
i don't know about that... probably depends on the girl you are trying to get.. maybe a rich snob would just wanna see the BMW logo... but a girl with a good head, i think would choose the G... at least girls around here are much more impressed with my coupe than any of the boring Bimmers.
G37 reliability after its first year will probably be >>>> 335
G37 price is almost like 335 so an infiniti is not worth it anymore
no, not really
G37 navigation >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 335 idrive (yuck. im yet to see it get me directions somewhere before i actually get there physically)
335 paint quality >>>>>>> G37
probably...
335 finish quality is probably > G37
335 leg room, head room, trunk space, back seat room >>>>>> G37
it's a SPORTS COUPE... why should you care about that stuff.. that just proves why the 335 is behind.. with it's buig ugly windows.. it's doesnt look like a sports coupe....
Overall i think engineers did a better job on 335 vs. G37 especially when it comes to weight, performance, engine output, rwhp and torque, etc....
maybe on paper... but there is much more to these cars than Car & Driver 1/4 mile times.
ya'll have a good day. lates
couldn't have said it better myself!!
bro you are talking about a twin turbo I6 vs a N/A V6. of course the FI'ed I6 is going to win its not rocket science
if Nissan went FI on the G37 this wouldnt even be an arguement.
Fuck BMW they are trash now. I'd take an Audi anyday or a mercedes second. but never a bimmer.
bro you are talking about a twin turbo I6 vs a N/A V6. of course the FI'ed I6 is going to win its not rocket science
if Nissan went FI on the G37 this wouldnt even be an arguement.
Fuck BMW they are trash now. I'd take an Audi anyday or a mercedes second. but never a bimmer.
Umm... hello... Mcfly...
Audi S4 used to run a TT setup on their V6's and still the E46 M3 beat it by a fairly large margin. Just because something has turbo's doesn't mean it'll be faster than a NA setup. That's like saying a taller person will "always" be better at sports. We all know that that's definitely not true.
So who's the chump now??? Biatch!!!
__________________ Always outnumbered, never outgunned.
. I am an executive at an accounting software installation firm based in Minnesota...you could say I'm a bit of a nerd when it comes to vehicles 
.
