(Another) Break in and oil question

[Neal376]

I am planning to switch to synthetic oil at 600 miles. This ok for the car, or should i wait till the end of the break in period. thank you

[SmokeG305]

Originally Posted by Neal376

I am planning to switch to synthetic oil at 600 miles. This ok for the car, or should i wait till the end of the break in period. thank you

um, thats a good question. why dont you just wait till the next oil change(3k miles)? i know that if you switch later into the miles, the car becomes use to regular oil and it might take a few changes w/ synthetic for you to start feeling any difference in performance.

[gq916]

i would switch it at 15000 miles..let all the seals break in...sythetic oil is very lubricating so its better not to switch so early. i switched at 15K

[Neal376]

alright, thank you i guess I will do so to

[Neal376]

wait Did you say 15000!! as in Fifteen THOUSAND!.. thats a long time!!!
I dont want to wait that long.. I thought you meant 1500, you sure 1500 is not to quick?

[DG G35]

I am switching to Synthetic at my next oil change which is 4,500 miles.

[GZire]

I've seen most switch around 6k+.

Some say switching earlier helps to prevent the engine breaking in more and as a result means increased oil consumption. I have no idea if this is true or not (some swear by it and others say bs).

Personally, I'm at about 8k with the standard dino oil. I'm probably going to stay with the dino and forego the synthetic. In any case, I'd play it safe and wait until you're several oil changes down the road before going synthetic.

BTW I don't think the 15,000 miles is a typo, I think he really meant 15k.

[dholly]

For the reasons stated 600 mi. may be too early, problem is - excess oil consumption will only show after the fact and then you will not be able to rectify it. So... better to err on the side of caution IMO.

I did a dino change at 1000 mi. to flush any manufacturing metal and contaminants, then another at 3,500 mi. and 7,000 - in essence, the manufacturer's recommended 3,500 mi. interval for hard use plus an early flush for good measure. At the next change, 10,500 mi., I went to synthetic and extended the change interval to 5,000 mi. Blackstone Labs oil analysis suggested I could safely go longer than 5,000 mi. with M-1 , so the next change interval was extended to 7,500 mi., where it remains. I have two samples with that interval to test, haven't sent them in yet, but based on what I read on the BITOG forums, that interval is fine for M-1 10w-30 in a VQ35DE.

[Neal376]

So I guess it doesnt hurt to wait.

I only want the best for the car, and the best for the gas milege.

It sounds like I should flush it with dino now (I am at about 1600 now)

[LarryS]

Here's what Mobil1 says:

Myth: You should break in your engine with conventional oil, then switch to a synthetic oil like Mobil 1.
Reality:


You can start using Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology in new vehicles at any time, even in brand new vehicles. In fact, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn Technology is original equipment (it is installed at the factory) in:


* Aston Martin
* Bentley Amage and Bentley GT
* Cadillac CTS, XLR, SRX and STS
* Chevrolet Corvette
* Dodge Viper
* Mercedes-Benz AMG vehicles
* Mercedes SLR
* Mitsubishi EVO
* Pontiac GTO
* All Porsche vehicles

One of the myths that surrounds synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

[Neal376]

yea... i heard that too

[dholly]

Originally Posted by LarryS

One of the myths that surrounds synthetic oils is that new engines require a break-in period with conventional oil. The fact is, current engine manufacturing technology does not require this break-in period. As indicated by the decisions of the engineers who design the high-performance cars listed above, Mobil 1 can be used starting the day you drive the car off the showroom floor.

Umm, are you surprised that a synthetic oil manufacturer would make this claim? And, since you apparently do not feel your engine required a break-in period, may we presume you hammered the crap out of it from th moment you left the dealer lot? Gimme a break.

I don't think anybody has said you can't properly break in an engine with synth oil from the get-go. My feeling is, the initial wear-in (or break-in, or call it what you will, the parts still have an initial period wherein they wear to each other above and beyond the manufacturing tolerances) is likely to occur quicker and perhaps even more effectively using dino first. That position is supported by at least one synthetic oil manufacturer (-Redline-) itself. Plus, what's good for the goose is not necessarily good for the gander. While some engine manufacturers include initial synth fills, not all auto engine manufacturers are optimizing their cylinder and ring packages for an initial fill of slippery sythetics Therefore, these engines are still likely to benefit from dino break-in before switching to synth... including the VQ35DE which does not come with an initial synth fill.

Articles of interest:

Using synthetic-oil in engine break-ins
By Road & Track, Technical Correspondence Column, July 2000 issue

Many readers have questioned us on engine break-in procedures when using synthetic oil. Conventional wisdom has it that a new or freshly rebuilt engine should be broken in using mineral oil, then, once enough mileage has accumulated to ensure rings and cylinder walls have lapped themselves into harmony, synthetic oil can be used.

Readers have correctly pointed out that several major brands come from the factory with synthetic oil, among these being Corvette, Mercedes-Benz and Viper. How can these engines break-in if run on synthetic oil from day one, they ask?

To find out, we spoke with Mobil and Redline Oil companies for their take on the synthetic break-in question. Mobil's response was that engines break-in just fine on synthetics, and that any wear point in the engine significant enough to be an interference, and thus susceptible to rapid wear, would be a wear point no matter what lubricant is used.

Redline, on the other hand, has found it best to recommend a mineral oil break-in. Occasionally an engine will glaze its cylinder walls when initially run on Redline, they say, so by using a mineral oil for 2000 miles, verifying there is no oil consumption and then switching to the synthetic, glazing is eliminated.

Cylinder-wall glazing is not a deposit left on the cylinder wall, but rather a displacement of cylinder-wall metal. This happens when the high spots of the cylinder wall crosshatch are not cut or worn off by the piston rings, but rather rolled over into the valleys or grooves of the crosshatch. This leaves a surface that oil adheres to poorly, against which the rings cannot seal well. Compression is lost and oil consumed, and the only cure is to tear down the engine to physically restore the cylinder-wall finish by honing.

Why is glazing not a problem for the major manufacturer? Because they have complete, accurate control over their cylinder-wall finish and ring type. Redline deals with a huge variety of engines and manufacturers, both OEM and from the aftermarket. Cylinder-wall finish and ring type thus vary greatly, and glazing can therefore occur, albeit rarely.

While we were at it, we queried about synthetic oil-change intervals. Mobil says to use the maximum change interval specified by the engine manufacturer, regardless of oil type. Redline said that once past an OEM warranty, anywhere from 10,000 to 18,000 miles, or one year, whichever comes first, is appropriate depending on conditions (dust, short trips). They also recommend changing just the oil filter at 6000 to 7000 miles as a precaution against overloading the filter. Redline further noted a caution when using synthetics with leaded fuels, as synthetics do not hold lead in suspension as well as mineral oil. Aviation is one area where leaded fuel is still widespread, and avgas is often used by off-road and racing enthusiasts, so a relatively short oil change interval may thus be indicated.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Synthetic Break-in
By Tom Wilson
Road & Track, Technical Correspondence Column, November 2001 issue

Exxon/Mobil's official policy is that their synthetic oil may be used at any mileage, including factory fill, unless otherwise stated by the vehicle manufacturer. Mobil pointed out, as you did, that all Corvettes, Vipers, Porsches and Aston Martins are factory filled with Mobil 1 synthetic. We can only conclude that improvements in cylinder-wall finish and ring design or materials makes this possible.

It is also likely that vehicle manufacturers not using synthetics as the factory fill are also not optimizing their cylinder and ring packages for the slippery sythetics, in which case approximately 1000 miles on mineral oil should prove ample break-in time. In fact, in modern engines a very high percentage of ring break-in takes place very quickly, probably in the first 10 to 20 minutes of engine running. Certainly, some final lapping of the rings and cylinders takes place over several hundred miles after initial break-in.

Just to add some confusion, Porsche dynos all of its engines before installing them in the chassis. We were unable to determine what oil is used for the dyno session, but would presume it's Mobil 1.

[Neal376]

It is strange that LarryS has only one post...

[duc]

read this article it show you how to break-in an engine
Break In Secrets--How To Break In New Motorcycle and Car Engines For More Power