Bastards at Car and Driver

[rbichara]

They took our G's off the 10 Best Car list, while the 3 series that is about to be replaced remains.
Please cancel my subscription.
Those idiots also favor the Mustang GT over the 400 HP Pontiac GTO
The Stang won by one point, and it lead the "Gotta Have Factor by 7 points" 25 to 18.. Can you beleive this??
I mean I don't like either car, but hey I would go for the GTO over a stang anyday..
Talk about getting funding from Ford..
This magazine is getting more and more subjective.

[rbichara]

We should all send them protest letters and emails..
I feel cheated, this is supposed to be one of the most respected car magazines, and they will most likely hurt the resale value of our cars just because they get money from BMW (that has been the rumor for years)

[msb3079]

unfortuanatly it's how the world works...
i used to sell audio/video equiptment.. and had to explain to the average moron why Harman Kardon recievers are 10 times better than Sony receivers... they never understood because Consumer Reports told everyone to buy Sony. why? Because Sony paid them.

sucks.

[Chaz]

Car and Driver has especially been biased to BMW for years...always have and always will. Hence why I stopped reading that magazine years ago!

[neffster]

Who cares? Car and Driver doesn't pick MY cars. They don't drive MY vehicle. They don't make MY car payments, so why would I care what they have to say? Don't get your panties in a bunch over some individual writers comments. Heck, I bet you that there are several dozen writers for that rag. If they all had a top 10, the G would be on at least half of the lists...

If you want to buy a new car, do you seriously decide which vehicle is for you by what a magazine tells you?

Wait until you find out that aftermarket performance parts really don't provide as much of a performance gain as advertised. You're really going to be pissed off then...

[jedicoffman]

Actually Car and Driver usually bashes Ford pretty hard. I am surprised that they liked any type of Ford product. Heck let Ford enjoy this one time event. Cause gaurenteed after this year and those stangs are out for a little bit the troubles will start pouring in. I dont think Ford has to be funding anyone. For the past umpteen years they have been put down and finally they get a little bet of recognition and people get all bent out of shape about it. Granted the GTO has 400 horses but thats about it. I find it to be about the ugliest car I have ever seen. And for the price there is no comfort features at all. Hell theres not even a freakin sunroof. If I am paying above $30k I want some comfort features.

[jl9618]

Ha. I think it's funny that the G beat the 3 series in a head to head comparo put on by Car and Driver only to be taken off of the 10 best while the 3 series remains. Ask them how that math works out.

[jah]

Originally Posted by rbichara

They took our G's off the 10 Best Car list, while the 3 series that is about to be replaced remains.
Please cancel my subscription.
Those idiots also favor the Mustang GT over the 400 HP Pontiac GTO
The Stang won by one point, and it lead the "Gotta Have Factor by 7 points" 25 to 18.. Can you beleive this??
I mean I don't like either car, but hey I would go for the GTO over a stang anyday..
Talk about getting funding from Ford..
This magazine is getting more and more subjective.

Rbichara, while I do understand your contempt, you must remember one thing.............the 3-series has been on the 10-best car list for 10+ years. Now, I know that people will resort to "bias & funding" as their argument to validate why the 3 is on that list, but all it takes is to drive a BMW 3 in length (or own one) to know WHY it's on that list. C&D is not the only rag that ranks the BMW 3 high. Most rags will admit that the BMW is the superior "overall" car. The car is highly refined bro. Decades of engineering will do that to a car. The G hasn't earned that kind of respect, nor does it deserve it. The G is only a couple years old, and it does need to smooth out some rough edges. Can we agree on that? No need to cancel your subscription because the G is no longer on that list. Again, I love the G, but in the grand scheme of things.....it's no BMW.

As for the Mustang..........it's outsold GM & Chevy cars since ....well, forever. Hence, the decline of the Firebird/Camaro, etc. The world loves the Stang, and honestly, I'd rather drive the Stang over those cars as well. HP doesn't win comparos!! You might value that HP number over other vehicle attributes, but your average consumer isn't so concerned about HP (unless there are muito amounts of machismo) as they are comfort, decent materials (for whatever price bracket a particular vehicle falls in), etc.

Take their reviews with a grain of salt. In the long run, it's all about perspective and preference. They are editors and track junkies. Yes, they know their stuff about cars, however, they have opinions about what makes a car great just as we do. You love your G, drive it like you stole it!!!!!!

Originally Posted by jl9618

Ha. I think it's funny that the G beat the 3 series in a head to head comparo put on by Car and Driver only to be taken off of the 10 best while the 3 series remains. Ask them how that math works out.

When did this happen? Beat it in terms of what? Performance numbers? I doubt that. The cars peform rather equally, and no edge really goes to either vehicle. Because the new G is a fresh take on automobiles? Possibly! Please see my post to Rbichara with regards to WHY the 3-remains on that list and the G doesn't.

Originally Posted by Chaz

Car and Driver has especially been biased to BMW for years...always have and always will. Hence why I stopped reading that magazine years ago!

Do you really think that's the case Chaz? Honestly, do you think the BMW is not worthy of such accolades??? Have you ever "truly" compared the two cars instead of on-paper horsepower figures. Ever opened and closed the door on a 3, and then a G35? Ever paid attention to how silky smooth that motor is compared to the G's V6 (despite engine characteristics of an I6 vs V6. There are plenty of smoother V6's than the G's, so characteristics shouldn't even come into play)? Ever paid attention to the dash materials in the current 3 vs the G35? Hmmmm, what about the suspensions? Headliner materials? Steering wheel feel? Carpet? I could go on forever bro. The differences are apparent.

[BreaKaoss]

my dispute wasn't with the 3 series remaining and the G not, but that the rx-8 remained and the G didn't. the 3 series deserves to stay, but in truth, the rx-8 doesn't have much to offer compared to the G in my opinion.

[jah]

Originally Posted by BreaKaoss

my dispute wasn't with the 3 series remaining and the G not, but that the rx-8 remained and the G didn't. the 3 series deserves to stay, but in truth, the rx-8 doesn't have much to offer compared to the G in my opinion.

Although Mazda hasn't sold more RX-8 units than Nissan w/ the G35, it continues to be a popular vehicle among consumers. RX-8's have become more & more popular, and I'd imagine that the reason people are so stoked about the car is because Mazda finally did something right. The Mazda 6 is doing well, the RX-8 is doing well.....and the rotary isn't too problematic (so I've heard). I haven't read "why" they kept that car, and I too would rather own a G, but like I said......that's their perspective on things. I am curious as to why the G isn't on the list though. Hmmmmmm???

[BreaKaoss]

because they didn't have their hands on a 2005 6mt, and infinit didn't pay them off..lol jk

[jl9618]

jl9618 wrote:
Ha. I think it's funny that the G beat the 3 series in a head to head comparo put on by Car and Driver only to be taken off of the 10 best while the 3 series remains. Ask them how that math works out.


When did this happen? Beat it in terms of what? Performance numbers? I doubt that. The cars peform rather equally, and no edge really goes to either vehicle. Because the new G is a fresh take on automobiles? Possibly! Please see my post to Rbichara with regards to WHY the 3-remains on that list and the G doesn't.

It happened about 9 mos to a year ago. They did a comparo with about 6 entry level luxury sedans. I just happened to see that issue (again) on my buddys coffee table last night. The G took #1 while the bimmer #2. I don't remember every categories score but I do remember that the main reason the G won was because of it's superiority in performance. Obviously the BMW made up some ground with the interior category. I would classify the BMW as more refined compared to the G but the 3 series lineup needed an update.

The 3 has been a mainstay on the 10 best list but I just find it funny that the same people who ran the comparo(with the G on top) are the same people who then turn around and give second place a spot on the list while 1st place gets dropped. With the revisions made for 05 on the G, it is rather puzzling to me to see them get dropped while BMW made what changes for 05??? Just because BMW has a good history with Car and Driver that should not ensure future recommendations.

Before you get all BMW on my ass , I am also a fan of them and previously owned an e36 M3 so I consider myself knowledgable on the subject. Everyone knows BMW was considered the benchmarkof the industry but the prior generation 5 and soon to be prior generation 3 series were due for an overhaul. You can only stay still for so long before your competition inevitably catches up.

[jah]

Originally Posted by jl9618

It happened about 9 mos to a year ago. They did a comparo with about 6 entry level luxury sedans. I just happened to see that issue (again) on my buddys coffee table last night. The G took #1 while the bimmer #2. I don't remember every categories score but I do remember that the main reason the G won was because of it's superiority in performance. Obviously the BMW made up some ground with the interior category. I would classify the BMW as more refined compared to the G but the 3 series lineup needed an update.

The 3 has been a mainstay on the 10 best list but I just find it funny that the same people who ran the comparo(with the G on top) are the same people who then turn around and give second place a spot on the list while 1st place gets dropped. With the revisions made for 05 on the G, it is rather puzzling to me to see them get dropped while BMW made what changes for 05??? Just because BMW has a good history with Car and Driver that should not ensure future recommendations.

Before you get all BMW on my ass , I am also a fan of them and previously owned an e36 M3 so I consider myself knowledgable on the subject. Everyone knows BMW was considered the benchmarkof the industry but the prior generation 5 and soon to be prior generation 3 series were due for an overhaul. You can only stay still for so long before your competition inevitably catches up.

I'd like to see that issue. I'm just curious to see how all the results panned out....(i.e...numbers, subjective opinions, etc.)

I agree with you about the need for an overhaul. It's for that reason that the family that owns BMW told Chris Bangle to "shake things up", and shake he did! What was once a controversial 7 and 5 are now etching their way into people's hearts. They are easier on the eyes now, although they were never hard on mine. I will honestly say that the G is the first car IMHO that ever gave a BMW 3-series a run for it's money in the various categories.

[Edge]

Part of the reason is that they somehow decided to come up with some stupid categories. While their favorite cars are mostly in the sports to luxury sports sedans and coupes, they can only come up with so many categories for them. They didn't do that last year and was able to fit S4 and s2000 in along with the G. This year they had to come up with a muscle car category to fit the Mustang in... I am pretty disappointed that they decided to not find a way to fit the G.

I've driven the 3 series. It does excel in some important areas. I hate you Vanos but I agree with most of what you said about the 3-series. After all, there is a good reason why this car is the target to beat for all manufacturers (not just C&D).

However, I do not agree with the sound of the door. I've driven A4's and 3's, and I found the G's door sound just as vault like, at least on the sedan (I haven't tried the coupes). In fact, closing the G's door with the windows completely down sounds better than doing that with the S-class. And the way the G's trunk closes trumps them all too. Also, while the interior material and fit in the BMW is better, the design of the gauges, switches, and shift stick, and the overall feel always turns me off. And the biggest turn off FOR ME from the BMW's is the "silky smooth" shifting action of the stick. It robs me of the important tactile feel of precisely clicking (thumping) through expensive gears. I know they will never change that. Lastly, Skylines do have history and prestige, just not in the states or as Infiniti's.

Again, I do agree with Vanos mostly on the 3's. I don't see a concrete reason to pull it off the list and push the G there. In fact, C&D mentioned last year that one of the reason for listing the 3's is the choice from just having a decent sporty 325 to a full out G35-eating M3. For that, we'll have to wait for Nissan to somehow bring their full lines of Skylines from the cloth seated 250GT to the M3-eating GT-R, to the 350GT-8's that has more gears than an F-1 car

One thing is for sure. MY list will include the G no matter what. Everybody say "Hooray!"

[rbichara]

Vanos, I was in the other dogfight fight on the M3 Vs the G..
and I do know about Beemers, my ex and my dad have 3 and 5 series.
The comparo that the G sedan won was against a 325, and the result was that the Beemer was a better car but lacked power.
Basically they said that for the money the G was better, but that if you could afford a 330, that would be the better car.
My argument is that the G is so improved for 05, while the Beemers are about to be replaced, to me if one or the other should have been bumped, it should have been the Beemer.
As for the other cars on there, come on get real, the RX8, A freakin magnum, and the car that I find to be even uglier than the bland GTO:
The New Stang, sorry guys, I truly think it's that ugly