[ryno]

Originally Posted by j2k4real

Ill add my 2 cents to this discussion:

1. Why is it a big deal that GW granted spy powers over the US? - It was done specifically to bypass the judicial branch of government... there is a special court which can grant these powers... but they chose not to be bothered with a trivial thing such as evidence... there are some very specific laws against spying against US citizens, and the penalties are quite severe...

something to consider: this would a big deal, but not as much of a big deal if it were considered alone... but when considered with the false war intelligence , lack of accountability in the aftermath, ineffective post-war planning, single source contract illegalities, the almost forgotten and neglected effort to get Osama (If the troops in Iraq were at Tora Bora, he WOULD NOT still be at large).. along with efforts to ignore the problems with torture (Why not pass McCain's law as he originally submitted it... not the watered down version) and other shortcomings at home (Katrina for example - although the blame there must be shared with the local and state governments that were affected).. this type of incompetence and disregard for the law is dangerous... both to our freedoms and quality of life as well as to our image in the world


personally.. If in 2001-2002 we would have deployed the same amount of force as we did in Iraq to Afghanistan, and had taken Osama out of the picture, although it wouldnt have eliminated the threat of terrorism, people may give dude some more leeway... especially considering the way that Iraq created such a negative image of our country.. as someone who was in northern VA on 9/11 and was directly affected by it, I dont buy the argument of we dont have to capture Osama..

So back to the issue of spying on US citizens.. if its warranted, I wouldnt have a problem with it, but lol neither would the court system... I mean the FBI is here.. theyre equipped to investigate US citizen who are involved in suspicious activities... so why not employ this expertise... only plausible explanation: dont want to get caught up in red tape - the legal process... if the legal process is the problem.. why not present it to the people and congress and have the laws changed... because its not warranted.. period..

Benjamin Franklin - "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

We are a country based on the rule of law... or at least we used to be.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Edit: I was ready to break out that BF quote but then realized it was time to go home from work.